2021 Roughhouse CVT questions?

[Hunterdude]

Hello, new member, first post! I just picked up a 2021 RH sport with only 260 miles, a couple purchased a pair of Roughhouse's last year to go with there cottage on lake but sold cottage and the new owners just wanted the RH's thrown in, so I got a great price.
Observations:
I am a big guy at 6'6" and 330lb but I wanted to try a 50cc for the very low running cost ($15 moped sticker) It's doing surprisingly well, but does struggle a bit on hills. I am running mostly 1/2 throttle for break-in and vary speed a lot.
I purchased 1 gal of Motul 710 2T oil and a quart of royal purple 85w140 synthetic gear oil for trans, hopefully I have choose well?
I want to run stock 50cc for several thousand miles before a BBK so I would like to focus on getting the most out of the CVT that I can, is the NCY super trans kit the way to go? Or just lighter rollers? I don't need more top speed, just would like better hill climb performance. I will have a better Idea when the rings seat, is that 600 to 1000 miles?
The other thing I noticed is the sport comes with the rear shock on softest setting, at my size I was bottom out frequently, I added a little over 1/2" on the pre load of rear shock and man did that really help! I think I will go a little more as I weigh 3x what the people weigh where the Roughhouse is built (Taiwan)
The other thing is I feel the stock pipe does not breath well, is the "Sport" pipe a worth while upgrade? Or what is recommended with stock cyl? Any advice on setting up the RH for a "big" guy is welcome!

[kmrcstintn]

is the varistor boss restriction ring removed? that would be step one for me before modding it; my '21 built roughhouse finally came home this week...had the shop yank the restriction ring prior to sale; I am breaking in a bit more aggressively than owner's manual but nowhere near 'bat outta hell' wide open throttle; varying rpm's alot during first few hundred miles is the key to seating rings & mating other parts; I bought different oils locally before prices went up...Amsoil injector, Lucas synthetic blend, Amsoil Interceptor, VP Racing synthetic; got @ 2 gallons stashed so I'm good for a while...

I got leftover Valvoline synthetic 75w-140 gear oil for a few changes...

[Hunterdude]

It will bury the Speedo on a cold morning but struggles on a warm day. The Speedo reads fast, think 41mph GPS reading is the best I have done on level. I assume the restriction ring is gone, but I will check!
It idles well but stumbled and bog and stalled when I bring home. The dealer suggest I avoid ethanol fuel if I wanted to be happy. I suspected stale ethanol fuel in the tank all winter.... so I siphoned tank dry and filled with Recreational fuel, the difference was night and day better!

[Neil82]

Congrats on your RH! I think your engine and gear oil selections are top of the line. I cannot make any recommendations regarding CVT upgrades. I am still running stock on my 2021 Buddy 50 (except derestricted) so no experience with this. Hopefully others can help with recommendations. I am considering switching roller weights out for Dr Pulley sliders. You might try going with lighter weight sliders for your scenario. I am curious about what type of recreational fuel you used? I have been using 91 octane from Shell station. I am near Denver at mile high elevation.

[Hunterdude]

Hello fellow Roughhouse rider! The Recreational fuel in my area varies from 90 to 91 octane, even as high as 94 octane called race fuel.
I am not chasing the higher than 91 octane rating, but the 100% fossil fuel the Recreational fuel contains. Most pump fuel is 10% ethanol.
Ethanol does not make as much power as fossil fuel, but the big problem with ethanol is Very poor storage, if you leave fuel in your scooter for more than a month or 2 it will absorb water and is not kind to rubber seals and will crude up your fuel system. The REC fuel makes more power and the Roughhouse loves it.
If you do not have access to REC fuel it is a very good idea to use a fuel stabilizer in your tank to minimize the bad effects of ethanol. If you have a modern fuel injection scooter, they are designed to cope with ethanol fuels a bit better, but our carburetor Roughhouse will really appreciate 100% fossil fuel. It costs a bit more, but my first fill up I got 90mpg so I just don't care as long as the Roughhouse runs and starts perfectly.
I am reading that change to 6 or 6.5 gram roller weights or sliders may get me better take off and hill climb
performance.

[Neil82]

Thanks for info about rec fuel. Good to know. I looked up a couple stations in the area that sell it. I'm going to give it a try! Keep us posted on your RH.

[tenders]

After finally deciding to replace my 2009 original belt, although it only has 2000 miles on it, I put 6g Dr. Pulley sliders into my stock Buddy 50 a couple of weekends ago and was very disappointed with the result. (Stock rollers are 7.5g, 16x13mm). Higher RPM, lower top speed, no interesting acceleration in between.

Based on an idea from a YT video by “49ccScoot,” who is a patient genius, I weighed a piece of rectangular tinfoil at about 6.5g, cut it into equal sixths, and using a hammer and a small bolt, crumpled and jammed each sixth of the foil into the center of each of the 6g sliders so each one would weigh about 7.25g.

This accomplished very little different from stock. Maybe 1 additional mph on the speedo - maybe. It’s fine, but I was happy with the stock setup in the first place.

Should a slider a quarter gram lighter than the stock roller be enough to see a difference? If there is some sweeter spot between 6.0 and 7.25 grams I might be persuaded to get into the sliders for one more adjustment. Otherwise I’m inclined to let it be until something goes amiss with the foil arrangement.

The other posts I found here involved tweaking the slider/roller weight AND changing the displacement, exhaust, and carb jet configurations. I only wanna mess with the rollers/sliders.

[Hunterdude]

I think the idea with weight tuning is to go as light as you can without loose top end, if you go to light the CVT will not shift all the way into high gear. I have read that sliders last longer than rollers, but because of there design, they can act differently and may require a slightly more heavy weight.

Update:
Reading on the 49cc forum the NCY super trans kit IS considered a decent upgrade over stock, However the Molossi variator kit is considered 1 notch better. It is not as complete of a kit so I may upgrade the clutch side as well when I Do more research.
I have also ordered the Malossi Wild Lion sport pipe, it is said to give deeper voice and flows better than stock with a broad power band, not as much power as an expansion chamber pipe but don't have to get so high in the revs to hit the power band.
I will re-jet for the pipe and when happy will start tuning on the CVT and report back. Had to order the pipe direct from Italy as all the USA suppliers where sold out. It may be a couple weeks before everything comes in.

[zino]

hunter good to see you here and over at 49cc scoot
I hunt up info on alot of forums .
This is where I got alot of my initial info on stock carb jetting and what slider weights contra and clutch springs everyone drifted too on the CVT when they upgraded pipes and bbk kits .

[zino]

On the European Forums
I got info on what pipe combos and bbks worked ,The Pgo Hot Pgo Big Max are very similar to the Roughouse
The Malossi Wild Lion Pipe/Polini Speed is actually made by Gianelli just rebadged as Polini or Malossi instaed of the original name Gianelli Go.
So if you search over on those forums you will see a abreviation GG in builds which stands for the Gianelli Go pipe .

Alot of the manufactures outsource parts to other suppliers and slap there name on them .
Yasuni now makes the Stage 6 Pro Replica Pipe
Athena has made bbk kits for Stage 6 .

When you look at the Taiwanese brands SSGP,Naraku ,and NCY they have similarities .

[Hunterdude]

Nice to see you here zino, great info as always!

[Therealslimshaggy]

Stay away from the ncy super trans kit. It’s useless and chews up belts. In Taiwan no one uses it. What people do in Taiwan where ncy and genuine scooters are made to retain a reliable yet powerful setup is simple.

Liquid cooled bbk.
Stock cvt with lightened clutch plate
Cvt cover off- (50cc 2 t cvt don’t breath/ aren’t big enough to get air so must be removed or you’ll snap belts weekly when they heat up to 220 degrees spring and summer. Bando belt is the strongest.
Stock cvt with final drive gears changed. This is how to get a 10-30mph increase in top speed the reliable way


The takeaway. Cvt kits only work long term or reliably on massive cvt bikes. Think Yamaha smax 155 or Vespa 300. Those cvt kits might be worth it. All genuine scooters have small cvts. Not bulky. Not durable. Oem your best bet there. Especially I can’t stress enough. A bando belt. Sadly 3 companies that aren’t bando are being sold as oem belts in USA. They aren’t. No one in Taiwan would be caught dead on anything NOT running a bando belt. 15 year’s experience scooting in Taiwan 5 years Hawaii. 3 years Dallas. Over 500,000 miles scooted. 30,000 miles in the past 6 months. 5 years doing Uber eats experience strictly on pgo / genuine scooters both stateside and internationally. I got the reliability bang for buck on these things down to a science.