Switching to synthetic oil

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:18 pm

I've looked at the archives about this question, but don't feel solid yet about it. My 2008 125 buddy has 4200 miles. I change my own oil and am thinking of switching to a synthetic. (I haven't done so before because the carb. had problems and gas was getting in the oil when I bought the scoot a yr. ago).

Is there anything I need to be aware of when switching to a synthetic? Is it wise to go beyond 1000 miles between oil changes? Is there a quality affordable brand at Walmart, or comparable easy source, to consider and what weight would I use? If I do go to synthetic can I go back to "dino" in the future? Are leaks likely? Thank you for any info.

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:26 pm

You are going to get a number different opinions on this: Here is what I do.
Rotela T6, full synthetic from Walmart. I do the oil every 2k, and change the filter every other change. You are well past the break in period. It is fine to switch over to full synthetic at this point. You can switch back at anytime, don't know why you would want to. The most important thing is to torque your filter to 12ft lbs, and be sure you put in the right amount of oil.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:34 pm

Thank you DeeDee. What is weight on that Rotella T-6?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:54 pm

Agreed. My shop mechanic said pretty much the same - dino oil for the first change or two, then full-synthetic after that. The dino, being not quite as slippery as full-synth, helps the rings and piston walls wear 'nicely' against one another during break-in, getting the right amount of seal and thus compression. After that initial controlled-wear, full-synthetic helps keep things nice and slippery, minimizing future wear.

The Rotella T6 seems to work pretty well. It's designed as a heavy-duty Diesel engine oil, but holds up pretty well on our hot-running little single-cylinder motors. It's probably the least expensive full-synthetic, and widely available.

schroeder · Post by **schroeder** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:29 am

5W40. I also use this oil. You can find it at Walmart which is the cheapest you will find it.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:52 am

There is some controversy about whether or not one should use dino oil for the first break-in period (200-600 miles). After that I am not aware of any controversy concerning using synthetic oil in a 4T scooter engine. My own experience and most technical information I see says that it is a no-brainer. I have been using synthetic oil in our Buddy 125 for 8 years now. The scooter runs great and has never needed anything but routine maintenance and tires. The factory spec for my Vespa and other Piaggio bikes calls for synthetic oil.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:36 pm

I used to have 2 different Buddy 125's before switching over to motorcycles; both ran the factory fill until 350-600 miles then I had my shop do the first service with a quart of Chevron Delo 400 15w-40 (that I provided) until 1000 miles; switched over to Suzuki 10w-40 synthetic blend motorcycle oil & ran filter until 1500 miles; at 1500 miles new filter)...'09 Buddy kept getting the Suzuki synblend 10w-40 & the '13 Buddy got switched over to Amsoil synthetic 10w-40 scooter oil; can't comment on long term performance since I traded up to motorcycles; both bikes get dino 10w-40 motorcycle oil and/or dino 15w-40 hdeo oil (usually use a 'blend' of leftover oils for shorter oil change intervals -- autumn, winter storage, early spring); no ill effects experienced in 3 different bikes with nearly 13000 miles accumulated between them (still own 2)

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:50 pm

The differences between dino oil and synthetic is - dino oil breaks down over time while synthetic never breaks down. Using synthetic, theoretically, you would never have to change your oil again, but unfortunately it still gets dirty and has to be changed.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:07 pm

I'm most like DeeDee. I use Rotella T 5W-40 Full Synthetic from Walmart. I change every 2,000 to 2,500 miles. The only difference from DeeDee is I change the filter each time. But every other time is probably fine and saves money.

Just like cars, I've never followed the industry recommendations. Those recommendations are simply to make you buy more oil and pay for more service. For cars they recommend every 3,000 miles for when all studies have shown no degradation until 9,000 miles. Most experts recommend changing at 7,500 miles to play it safe.

For scooters the industry recommends every 1,500 miles for synthetic. Knowing how the game is played, you're probably fine for 3,500 miles. But I change at 2K to 2.5k to play it safe.

But, I don't recommend you follow my example. I have no empirical data to support my assumptions about scooter oil changes.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:46 pm

k1dude wrote:For scooters the industry recommends every 1,500 miles for synthetic. Knowing how the game is played, you're probably fine for 3,500 miles. But I change at 2K to 2.5k to play it safe.

For comparison, Piaggio/Vespa recommends only synthetic oil and a change every 6,000 miles (10,000 kilometers). In that context, the Genuine recommendations for the Buddy and other PGO scooters seem quite conservative.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:21 pm

Dooglas - even on their air-cooled models?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:50 pm

PeteH wrote:Dooglas - even on their air-cooled models?

The maintenance schedule on my LX150 calls for oil and filter at 6,000 km (3,600 mi), and for the GTS and BV350 at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). The newer air cooled Vespas (Primavera, Sprint, and 946) with the 3V engine call for oil and filter changes at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). I change the oil in my scooters once a year, whether I hit the mileage trigger or not.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:22 pm

Nice.

New2Scoots · Post by **New2Scoots** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:44 pm

I've used synthetic oil in my cars & motorcycles for years & I've noticed that none use oil between changes. 102,000+ miles on my car & burns no oil, 7,000 miles between changes. I switched around 3-4K miles but after reading the "Break in" thread here I'll switch at 1,500 on the Buddy & maybe around 800 on my little Metro. I want to run them through 2 temperature cycles; 30+ degrees winter & 100 degrees summer to insure a full break in before I switch. Will try Redline 10W-40 for the Buddy, not the motorcycle oil, the car oil. Amsoil 10W-30 Signature Series for the Metro. FWIW- JASO MA means no friction modifiers & JASO MB means it has friction modifiers. Since the Buddy has a dry clutch I may as well get the benefit of friction modifiers.

TCaruso · Post by **TCaruso** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:45 pm

When changing the oil, what filter do you use? The only filter I'm aware of that fits is the Prima filter. However I'd like to try a K&N but I don't know which filter.

Does anyone know an alternative to Prima?

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:57 pm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jt-Sprocket-HF1 ... 5a&vxp=mtr

Be sure to torque to 12 ft/lbs

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:23 pm

TCaruso wrote:When changing the oil, what filter do you use? The only filter I'm aware of that fits is the Prima filter.

There are quite a few choices out there as the Buddy uses the same oil filter as the modern Vespas. The standard Piaggio filter will work, the HF 183, the Malossi red chili, and others.