Some problems with my new (to me) Buddy 50

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notyourfathersedits
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:13 pm

Some problems with my new (to me) Buddy 50

Post by notyourfathersedits »

Hello!

I recently picked up a 2009 Buddy 50 that had <500 miles on it. So, probably sitting in a while.

I’ve been riding it back and forth to work multiple times a week.

Within a week or so, I started having problems. The engine wouldn’t start, and the battery went dead, likely from me turning over the engine with the electric starter repeatedly. I brought it in to a shop for service, and they replaced the battery, did an inspection (including checking the gear oil), and cleaned out the carb. Apparently it was gnarly in there, like someone had tried to clean the old gas in there.

So, it’s running again, but something still feels off to me, especially at low speeds. It feels like it judders. When I shut the engine off and coast down my driveway, I hear something rubbing. The front wheel does not spin freely, and I hear a friction noise from what I *think* is the rotor and caliper.

I brought this up to the shop, asking if checking the brakes is a normal part of service. They told me that the front wheel is slightly askew, which they claim they told me about. (We had talked about how the bike likely fell on its left side after noticing some tells, but I had left with the impression that it was cosmetic.) They’d opened up the body to reseat the speedometer cable, which was likely necessary because someone hadn’t tightened it after replacing the top panel. The guy told me it’s possible I have a bent fork or triple tree, and that if it bothers me I could get it fixed for $600. I see the skew, but it’s VERY slightly to the right at the top and left at the bottom (I think). The wheel doesn’t wobble at all when I turn it viewing from the front that I can see.

Someone on Reddit gave me some steps to go through to check the brakes and see if they’re seized, etc. That said, I’m experiencing engine issues again. I have to give it gas for it to start most of the time. (Running lean? It takes longer than I’d expect to come back to idle after revving than I’d expect, but they JUST cleaned and I assume tuned the carb..) The lights run dim and flicker when it first starts, and the engine will shut off unless I rev it a bit. If I do, it stays running. It also sputters with the throttle only a little open. It doesn’t feel like it has as much of a kick acceleration-wise as when I first started driving it. More importantly though, it just feels crunchy to drive. It’s possible this is just the brake issue, but I feel like it could be more or multiple issues.

I checked the voltage across the battery, and it’s 13.04V when off, creeps up to 12.87V when started and idling, and reaches about 14V when revving the engine. So, the stator seems fine. Maybe I’ll check the air filter? Could it be some kind of Vacuum leak? Valve adjustment necessary? (I wouldn’t have the tools or comfort to go clowning around in the engine.) the part on the right side labeled P2286 (an air pump for the exhaust, I believe) has signs of trauma and sounds like it’s rattling inside…could that be causing this? (Doubtful but I figured I’d be thorough.) My impulse is to check the spark plug to check if it’s running lean, but I don’t have the proper tools yet.

I don’t feel like I can go back to the shop after the tone I received calling back and feeling gaslit since they in no way told me about potential issues with the frame. I’m not even sure that wasn’t something he was speculating on the phone or out of defensiveness. I’m trying to find someone else to take it to in my area, but coming up a little dry. If possible, I’d appreciate someone to talk me through this who knows a bit more than I do.

Thanks very much.
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tenders
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Re: Some problems with my new (to me) Buddy 50

Post by tenders »

I followed your saga on Reddit. You need to be ruthlessly methodical about fixing this stuff one item at a time. Lumping all the issues together, throwing out random ideas like valves (2-strokes don't have them), and bouncing from one to another isn’t going to accomplish anything. The shop you’re using sounds interested in doing the extremely simple stuff like changing gear oil (absolutely not a part of any symptoms you’ve described), dropping in a new battery rather than charging the existing one, and being bad at the things that matter like cleaning a gummed-up carb.

Your carb might have been cleaned, but it isn’t clean. Would guess that residual gunk in the tank and hoses shook loose after the initial cleaning and is now hindering the low-speed jet in the carb. This can be a DIY fix with minimal tools if you’re inclined - much of the time, but not all. I had a lot of trouble with mine after it sat for a long time and ended up replacing it. At some point the cost of certainty is worth the tradeoff of hours of uncertain effort. They are readily available and the OEM costs about $180, which is unusually expensive for Buddy components. Supposedly there are Chinese substitutes but I haven’t found one that is a drop-in replacement. This will probably solve all of the engine issues you’ve articulated.

You have to get to the bottom of the rubbing issue - brake, disc, bent fork, bent wheel. Whatever is making noise in that system must be identified and troubleshot. There is nothing there that can’t be seen with a flashlight. Take the wheel off if necessary, it’s a five-minute job round-trip.

The air pump thing is labeled “optional” on the Buddy parts diagrams and is a US-only add on that can be completely removed. Pretty sure this has been discussed somewhere here over the years. The plastic on mine was brittle and the ear that held it onto the frame snapped off. The metal tube that sticks out of the exhaust to which the system attaches needs to be capped off with something like this and a dollop of high temperature epoxy like JB Weld.
Supply Giant DUFD0012 Copper Cap with Sweat Socket, 1/2”
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016Y8OI7M/

The headlight flickering at startup is normal. The 50’s headlight is powered by AC once the engine is started so it doesn’t drain the battery before the engine is started. When the engine is warmed up and the carb is functioning properly most of the flickering smooths out. Doesn’t sound like anything electrical on your scoot is amiss in any way as long as the battery isn’t drained from starting attempts. You can prevent that by using the kickstarter while troubleshooting, btw - the Buddy kickstarter is as effective, or more effective, as the battery once you get the hang of it.
Therealslimshaggy
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Re: Some problems with my new (to me) Buddy 50

Post by Therealslimshaggy »

I have a Roughhouse 50 which is basically identical to a buddy 50 with the only difference being wheel size and cvt length. That being said I got 15,000 miles on it and have already been through and experienced everything you speak of. I’ll start off by listing some data points

Starting- it’s a 2T engine (2 stroke). Brand new it took some gas throttling to start, as it did at 1000 miles. As it did at 5000 miles. As it does today at 15,000 miles. It’s just how two strokes are. The battery and starter can start it right up with the throttle open and after start need some throttle to keep it going until a few minutes later when it’s fully warmed up. These engines are small and take a long time to warm up. They disapate heat well. They run terrible in cold winters because they truly never warm up or stay warm in cold winters and so want to stall out or die the minute you ease up on the throttle.

The brakes- I also had a wobbly front rotor. Could also be from a slightly bent front rim. The brakes were pretty garbage to begin with so I decided to swap out everything before buying a new front rim. I got the ncy steel braided brake line, dual caliper ncy brake caliper, and a new brake rotor. After the install I noticed the front brake rotor still wobbled a little but not as bad as before and the brakes weren’t great the first 1000 miles. After the rotor and pads wore in the brakes became excellent. I re-examined the brake rotor and now it has zero wobble so I geuess the pads true-ed out the rotor to be straight. I’m on my second set of ncy pads now. They last about 6-7k miles. All these parts also fit the buddy 50.

The carb- it’s nearly impossible to remove if the engines still mounted to the frame. I have only cleaned it once after trying all the other trouble shooting to get it running smoothly and finally the carb clean got it going smooth. I was able to remove the bottom part of the carb float bowl by removing the air cleaner plastic. After I had the float bowl removed I sprayed it many times with carb cleaner. And wipped it out. Some black residue showed up on the shop towels. Reassembled and it ran great.

The spark plug- this is the first thing I check when experiencing running issues. The plug gets dirty fast on these 2t engines I have had to removed and clean my plug multiple times. One fault both the buddy and roughhouse has is that the oil resivore is directly over the plug and coil and the oil resivore is prone to leaking. It doesn’t leak from the fill cap it actually leaks from the low oil sending unit located next to the oil fill cap. To solve this issue you need to expoxy down the low oil sending unit to the oil tank so that it doesn’t get loose and spill oil over bumps which leaks down to your plug and coil and completely kills the engine in the middle of a ride which happened to me twice. Also when you buy a new plug you don’t have to gap it. The plug doesn’t come pregapped. So why do you not have to gap it? Simple. The gap in the specs manual is already super small 0.6mm so the plug tip is always already at about that and doesn’t need to be stretched further. Those that try to gap the plug on these usually mess up, run too hot of spark which will lead to a shattered piston in 3000 miles vs 10000 miles when your piston is normally scheduled to shatter under normal wear and tear on a 2 t engine.
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Yamaha Aerox 155, Genuine Roughhouse 50, Genuine buddy 170i, Yamaha Cygnus 125, Honda grom 125, Suzuki address 110 (uk110), Yamaha cuxi 115, Yamaha BWS 100 2t, Yamaha R6, Honda CR125, Kawasaki KX 500
notyourfathersedits
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Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:13 pm

Re: Some problems with my new (to me) Buddy 50

Post by notyourfathersedits »

tenders wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:07 am I followed your saga on Reddit. You need to be ruthlessly methodical about fixing this stuff one item at a time. Lumping all the issues together, throwing out random ideas like valves (2-strokes don't have them), and bouncing from one to another isn’t going to accomplish anything. The shop you’re using sounds interested in doing the extremely simple stuff like changing gear oil (absolutely not a part of any symptoms you’ve described), dropping in a new battery rather than charging the existing one, and being bad at the things that matter like cleaning a gummed-up carb.

Your carb might have been cleaned, but it isn’t clean. Would guess that residual gunk in the tank and hoses shook loose after the initial cleaning and is now hindering the low-speed jet in the carb. This can be a DIY fix with minimal tools if you’re inclined - much of the time, but not all. I had a lot of trouble with mine after it sat for a long time and ended up replacing it. At some point the cost of certainty is worth the tradeoff of hours of uncertain effort. They are readily available and the OEM costs about $180, which is unusually expensive for Buddy components. Supposedly there are Chinese substitutes but I haven’t found one that is a drop-in replacement. This will probably solve all of the engine issues you’ve articulated.

You have to get to the bottom of the rubbing issue - brake, disc, bent fork, bent wheel. Whatever is making noise in that system must be identified and troubleshot. There is nothing there that can’t be seen with a flashlight. Take the wheel off if necessary, it’s a five-minute job round-trip.

The air pump thing is labeled “optional” on the Buddy parts diagrams and is a US-only add on that can be completely removed. Pretty sure this has been discussed somewhere here over the years. The plastic on mine was brittle and the ear that held it onto the frame snapped off. The metal tube that sticks out of the exhaust to which the system attaches needs to be capped off with something like this and a dollop of high temperature epoxy like JB Weld.
Supply Giant DUFD0012 Copper Cap with Sweat Socket, 1/2”
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016Y8OI7M/

The headlight flickering at startup is normal. The 50’s headlight is powered by AC once the engine is started so it doesn’t drain the battery before the engine is started. When the engine is warmed up and the carb is functioning properly most of the flickering smooths out. Doesn’t sound like anything electrical on your scoot is amiss in any way as long as the battery isn’t drained from starting attempts. You can prevent that by using the kickstarter while troubleshooting, btw - the Buddy kickstarter is as effective, or more effective, as the battery once you get the hang of it.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. I think your assessment about the shop is mostly spot on. Judging from how the bike was running the day I got it back, I think they did a fine job cleaning the carb. That said, I still wonder if they even looked at the brake, and whether the guy just free associated the possibility of a bent fork to skirt around that. I don't have much trust there anymore. And I've seen some online reviews that duplicate my experience of the owner being defensive, so at least I know I'm not cracking up. (I really appreciate when someone will work with me, and I didn't like the attitude I got for trying to figure out what was still going on. I was definitely not blaming them for the fact there is still a problem.)

I think your guess that some more gunk shook loose and is interfering with the low-speed is very likely—I don't know if the seller left bad gas in the bike when he sold it to me, to which I would've added new gas without draining that. And who even knows if the shop replaced the gas when they cleaned the carb.

I might try to bring it to someone else if I can—the nearest seems to be about 16 miles from me. With traffic, that's within 45 min or so door to door on the scooter. Maybe less if I get up to 40 for portions of it. Will be a nice drive. If not, I'll pick up some carb cleaner and a ratchet set to get to addressing one issue or the other. Just from looking, I think it could be a slightly bent disc. (Relatedly, I hear you about not bouncing from one issue to another while in the process of troubleshooting—I was more just trying to give all the information I could in my initial question.)
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