Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

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jammastajew
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Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by jammastajew »

Tldr: first ride of the spring, Genuine Buddy 50 (2 stroke) seemed fine for a couple miles, faltered the next few miles, and then stalled twice and then wouldn't start. Cleaned the carb twice, still won't start. I don't know what to do, please help!

I have a Genuine Buddy 50 (2-stroke, about 4 years old). About a month ago I took it out to do some spring maintenance. Last time it ran was probably late October, and then sat in a shed with sta-bil mixed in a full gas tank over the cold New England winter. I replaced the air filter and the v-belt, as per the maintenance schedule. I turned it on and let it idle 5 minutes, it spewed some smoke at first (typical after overwintering), and then rode it up and down the road a few times. All seemed fine. I didn't clean the carb because it seemed to be running okay and max speed was normal.

Today I decided to actually ride it a bit further, for my commute. About a mile and a half in of mostly WOT driving, the engine starts losing power. It kind of wavers between slowing down and revving, despite keeping the throttle consistent. My cruising speed isn't totally shot but it's definitely concerning. I go another mile like this and decide to head back home before it's too late. I pull into a driveway to make a U-turn and put it on the kickstand for a second. Idle speed sounds/feels fine. Revving (tire off the ground) seems acceptable but i don't push it too long.

I get back on and it's more of the same, wavering in the top end, for a little while, but soon it gets worse. Top speed is affected significantly and I'm pulling over for cars to pass. At one point with the throttle open, the engine stops wavering, steadily slows down, and then just stalls. My momentum carries me into another driveway.

I am able to start the engine again (electric) and now fully opening the throttle feels like the engine is going to stall. If I go about 50-75% throttle I hear the engine get power but immediately start slowing, so I have to keep applying and releasing the throttle. Each time I open the throttle, the engine seems to get a small burst of power but then rapidly loses it. I'm pulling and releasing and pulling and releasing the throttle continually. I can only go like 15-20 mph or so like this.

I make it back to my driveway, barely. In front of my garage the scooter stalls, and I can't turn it back on, electric or kick. I'm really lucky that I made it to here!

From past springs I know the carb can get gunked up over the winter so I figure that's the problem. I open it and spray everything with carb cleaner, remove 2 jets and clear them out, reassemble it, and it still won't start. I do it a second time, making extra sure there is no wet cleaner in the carb still. Engine won't turn with either electric or kickstart. I have plenty of gas in the tank. The electric starter sounds ok so I don't think it's the battery, but the engine won't turn.

So I guess it doesn't seem to be the carb, but I'm not experienced enough to know what else could cause this or what I should do. Please help me!
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DeeDee
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by DeeDee »

Next step should be to check for spark. Pull your plug. What color is it? Is it dry? Look at the connection of the plug wire to the plug cap. Is it good and solid? Any cracks? Twist the cap to the right. Make sure it is tight. Insert the plug into your cap. Get the end of the plug to rest near the steel frame. Do this inside the garage, out of direct light. Turn the scooter engine over. Do you see spark between the plug and the frame?
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
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DeeDee
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by DeeDee »

Pull the air filter and see if it will run with a blast of starter fluid first.
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
jammastajew
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by jammastajew »

Thanks so much for your advice. I finally had time to get a new plug and starting fluid and try this stuff out.

Tldr: old plug is black and oily, I replaced it, it runs. How do I prevent it from happening again?

I started with a blast of starting fluid in to the carb via the opened air filter and it didn't start.

Then i pulled out the spark plug. It looked oily and nasty. I rested it on the frame and hit the starter to see if it sparks anyway, and it did. See link for photos and a slow-mo video of the sparking.

https://imgur.com/a/86LIemk

But even though it sparked I figured the plug is still the problem and shouldn't be so gross, and since i already bought a replacement, i went and replaced it.

After installed the plug I tried starting again and it didn't start at first, and i even gave it another short blast of starting fluid. The engine would putter very very briefly, maybe 3 turns. Not so much a putter as just taking longer to not start.

Eventually I got it to start with the kickstart and pulling the throttle a little bit during the short putter! I gave it a little more gas because it sounded weak and then let it idle on the kickstand for about 5 minutes while i closed the air filter again and cleaned up some tools. The exhaust was smokey and whitish. I fully opened the throttle a few times and held it and things seemed ok. After another 5-10 minutes the exhaust cleared up.

I got on and drove it a little bit. It sounds crisper, like there is a sort of tinny clicking noise that I don't remember before.

What caused my old plug to get so nasty? How can I make sure this doesn't happen again? Should I have cleaned the inside somehow before just screwing the new plug in, and if so is there still time to do so, or is the new one already ruined and I'd need yet another plug?
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DeeDee
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by DeeDee »

You're kind of wordy. What I didn't see was how many miles on the scooter, or any of it's maintenance history. That plug is gross. Is it 800 miles old, or is it 7,000 miles old from when the scooter was manufactured?

I'd say you're running rich. How old is the 2t oil in the tank.
Maybe your air filter is solid with pollen and dirt. That would cause it to run rich. Owner's manual calls for new plug and air filter clean & re-oil every 2,000 miles.

Could be your plug cap is on it's way out. Spark isn't strong enough to burn the gas/oil mix all the way.
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
jammastajew
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by jammastajew »

Sorry you're right, trying to be thorough but sure it's a bit much. Please bear with me.

Since the maintenance schedule in the book is by miles and months, and i don't drive it long enough distances to even come close to them matching, I've been doing the next maintenance column every spring instead. The actual age of scooters is 3.5 years, actual mileage 2350, but this spring I did the 6 month/3750 mile maintenance (how can someone drive a 50cc enough to actually go 1875 in 3 months?).

That includes replacing air filter, it was a little oily but not caked up with anything, and i did that replacement before the scooter crapped out, not after. Spark plug is never actually labeled with the "mandatory replacement" symbol on the schedule.

The 2T oil is from probably late summer, and the gas in the tank would be last fall, with sta-bil.
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DeeDee
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by DeeDee »

You have a 3 1/2 year old scooter with 2,350 miles. Has the spark plug ever been changed? On a side note, how about the gear oil? Are you using good 2t oil? Where are you? You might need to go down a size on the main jet.
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
jammastajew
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by jammastajew »

This was my first spark plug change. I've changed the gear oil twice, for the 1st two entries on the maintenance schedule, both times at the beginning of spring. For 2stroke oil, until this year I used Husqvarna and now I have Motul 710, always labeled JASO FD. I'm in New England so I only use it late spring to early fall. Can you tell me about how the jets affect things?
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DeeDee
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by DeeDee »

The color of your plug tells a story of too much / unburnt fuel. Could it be... Main jet is too big, Air/fuel screw is out of adjustment...Auto oil injector is out of whack...Spark not hot enough to burn the correct fuel/oil mixture. I'm a 125 4 stroke rider, so my knowledge on this is limited. I would start with the air/fuel mixture screw. Is it running better with a new plug?
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
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DeeDee
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Re: Buddy 50 lost power mid-ride and now won't start, please help

Post by DeeDee »

Keep an eye on your front brake pads as well. I've seen them metal on metal at 2,400 miles on a 50.
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
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