Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

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jrsjr
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Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by jrsjr »

Hi all! As you know, there's nothing I like better than scouring the latest updates to the EPA database looking for scoops on unannounced products. Usually it's motorcycle stuff, but I may have found a scoop that will interest you all. Here is the (abridged) record of interest.

Year Mfg Model Disp Power
2022 Genuine GP300S, TG300T 278cc 16 KW (21.5HP)

The 4-valve motor is made in China by Changzhou Hande Vehicle Industry Co., Ltd., but the scooter itself is made in Thailand by Sco Motor Co. The certification is for 50 states plus 49 states. It's definitely a CVT transmission. There are videos of UK models of this machine on Youtube which look good.

There is no mention of this scooter on the Genuine site. Yet.

Dudes & Dudettes! You heard it here first!
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by scootERIK »

Wow! I was expecting a much longer wait for the 300. I hope I can take one out for a test ride at some point.
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skully93
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by skully93 »

I like the build quality of the RA 150. The 300 should be fun, roughly the same as the vespa 300 gts maybe?

It wasn't 'quick', but felt really well planted.
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by scootERIK »

The Royal Alloy USA Facebook page has a post saying "The 300 will be available early next year."



https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAlloyUSA
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wheelbender6
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by wheelbender6 »

Finally, some good news. Good on Genuine.
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by Scooteoverdaddy »

I was under the impression that the motor in the 300 will be the same motor that is in the Vespa. Thoughts?
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by scootERIK »

Scooteoverdaddy wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:40 am I was under the impression that the motor in the 300 will be the same motor that is in the Vespa. Thoughts?
If I remember right it's a copy of the Vespa 300 motor. A company bought the rights to reproduce the engine.

If this is the case I am curious if Vespa replacement parts and aftermarket parts will bolt right in or if there will be some slight changes.

I will also be curious to see how many miles one of these engines can last versus a Vespa made Vespa 300 engine. I would happily ride one to test the durability and reliability. :D
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by jrsjr »

Scooteoverdaddy wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:40 am I was under the impression that the motor in the 300 will be the same motor that is in the Vespa. Thoughts?
Boy is the answer to this not as simple and straightforward as you would like. FYI, I dug all this out of the EPA database online.

So, there are three legally distinct motors, the Piaggio 300, the Piaggio 300 HPE, and the RA 300.

Manufacturer
The Piaggio 300 motor is made in Italy by Piaggio.
The Piaggio 300 HPE motor is made in Italy by Piaggio.
The RA 300 motor is made in China by Changzhou Hande Vehicle Industry Co., Ltd.

All three motors displace 278 cc, but this is where it gets interesting.

Watts (Horsepower)
The Piaggio 300 motor makes 15.8 kW.
The Piaggio 300 HPE motor makes 17.5 kW.
The RA 300 motor makes 16 kW.

Bear in mind, these are the numbers the manufacturers reported to the EPA. I would hazard a guess that the 16kW number is just a roundoff of the 15.8kW number.

So, it would appear that the RA has the older pre-HPE Piaggio motor design as made in China by Changzhou Hande Vehicle Industry Co., Ltd.

For native speakers of EPA database-ese, all engines have an "EDV Code." The EDV codes for these three engines are unique. Here they are:

Piaggio 300 - M458M
Piaggio 300 HPE - MA36M
RA 300 - 1P75MN
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by sc00ter »

Now you got me waiting to see if it really happens. I would love a RA300!
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tenders
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by tenders »

Do you think the Chinese 300 is licensed from Piaggio, or just stolen/copied?

Why would they license it to a low-cost competitor?

Really interesting if they consider it a way to access a market they don’t otherwise compete in. I would consider a RA to be a viable cheaper substitute for some potential Vespa buyers.
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by scootERIK »

tenders wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:16 pm Do you think the Chinese 300 is licensed from Piaggio, or just stolen/copied?

Why would they license it to a low-cost competitor?

Really interesting if they consider it a way to access a market they don’t otherwise compete in. I would consider a RA to be a viable cheaper substitute for some potential Vespa buyers.
From Scooterlab.uk - "As far as we know, the RA uses a Chinese built version of the old Piaggio 278cc engine. The Piaggio engine was replaced by the new more powerful and fuel-efficient HPE in late 2018. Piaggio have cashed the old motor in by licencing it out. As such it is already starting to appear in a few 300cc scooters. Visually, the castings appear to be slightly different to the genuine Piaggio made casings but it’s hard to see whether the RA retains the Magneti Marelli fuel injection system or not. From January 2021 all new scooters will need to meet Euro 5 specs, I’m not sure what will be needed to get this older motor up to spec but I’m confident RA are on the ball to keep things moving."

Quote from - https://scooterlab.uk/royal-alloy-gp-30 ... road-test/
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by jrsjr »

scootERIK wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:53 pmFrom Scooterlab.uk - "As far as we know, the RA uses a Chinese built version of the old Piaggio 278cc engine. The Piaggio engine was replaced by the new more powerful and fuel-efficient HPE in late 2018. Piaggio have cashed the old motor in by licencing it out. As such it is already starting to appear in a few 300cc scooters. Visually, the castings appear to be slightly different to the genuine Piaggio made casings but it’s hard to see whether the RA retains the Magneti Marelli fuel injection system or not. From January 2021 all new scooters will need to meet Euro 5 specs, I’m not sure what will be needed to get this older motor up to spec but I’m confident RA are on the ball to keep things moving."

Quote from - https://scooterlab.uk/royal-alloy-gp-30 ... road-test/
So, according to this, my little bit of EPA database sleuthing was on track. The EPA stuff is all oriented to pollution stats, so there isn't any information in there about engine control electronics. However, I speculate that it's the same as the old Magneti Marelli fuel injection made under license in China or other lower-cost country (maybe Thailand, since that's where the RA bikes for the USA market will be assembled).
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by jrsjr »

:fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:
sc00ter wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:14 am Now you got me waiting to see if it really happens. I would love a RA300!
I know what you mean. We turned the "Genuine Cruiser" thing into a meme here, but the truth is that the RA300 really is that machine. After all these years... And it doesn't take any shine off Vespa because they have moved on to the HPE design which makes significantly more power without increasing the displacement. I was never happier with a scooter than with my old Vespa GT200L. I always dreamed of having a skosh more power and the RA apparently has it. The GT200L was reported to the EPA as making 14.2 kW vs the 16 kW the RA300 is reported to produce ( which I suspect is a round up of the 15.8 kW Piaggio had reported for their version of the motor). That's a generous improvement. On paper this sounds like a really great machine. Things like MSRP, build quality, OEM tire quality, seat comfort, reliability, and handling remain to be seen.

All in all, it's an exciting new product from Genuine with a whole lot of potential. It just took a decade longer than we wished it had. Seriously, a decade. :fp:
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by sc00ter »

I remember the unicorn scooter! But yes, I would seriously consider a RA300 IF it comes to the USA. I've been considering a GTS but I wan't something for just a toy, to play around on and most importantly-something different! Yet around here a GTS is considered exotic and there is a nice 2016 one for sale north of Richmond, VA that I may go and take a look at. The British community will put the current RA300 thru its paces and call it like they see it. Obviously if its a piece of junk I'll stay away but dang, the RA300 is a sharp looking scooter!
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by Scooteoverdaddy »

Put a deposit down on a RA 150 back in April. I was told by the dealer that it should be in around mid July at the latest. Mid July came (YAWN) and I was told any day now. When I read the post about the RA 300 in Todays EPA database, I called the dealer and asked to hold my deposit for the 300.
The dealer informed me that I should see the 300 early 2022. So I wait. Hope Covid round two does not rain on my parade!! :wha:
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Re: Royal Alloy 300 in Today's EPA Database Update

Post by ericalm »

There's nothing for the RA300 on the California Air Resources Board site yet, but we're likely looking at some more RA 150 variations, some G400 variations, and a Genuine Formula T. Just because they're listed here does not mean these are models headed for sale, but that the engines for these potential variations have been approved.

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