1/2 Scooter - 1/2 Motorcycle

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:25 pm

It's 1/2 scooter and 1/2 motorcycle. It's a category-buster concept bike called the Bulldog. Honda is showing it at the Osaka show. Hoo boy, I know I'm going to get some

- ful comments on this one. How about a thoughtful comment or two in the mix, pls?

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:16 pm

I do like it and I like honda, when I can affod them. R

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:35 pm

Certainly a step in a different direction - but it looks more like an adventure bike with a little more emphasis on dirt road than some. Which part is the scooter?

EvilNerdLord · Post by **EvilNerdLord** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:07 pm

Hmmm, interesting... Like or not, it will have that famous Honda fit, finish and reliability.. Question is how big is it and can I fit it?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:43 pm

EvilNerdLord wrote:Hmmm, interesting... Like or not, it will have that famous Honda fit, finish and reliability.. Question is how big is it and can I fit it?

Interesting you should ask. I thought the same thing. Is it gigantic, tall and heavy? But the article says it is quite low due in large part to the 15 inch wheels. I'd love to see one standing next to a scooter I'm familiar with, but I think maybe it is quite low, just like a scooter. I'm looking for photos of human beings next to it for scale comparison.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:08 am

My sentiments exactly, jrsjr.
Is it a big wheeled Ruckus or small wheeled XL?
I have seen it called everything from a Leggo motorcycle
to a dual sport for petite Japanese gals.
I like the 400cc twin. I'm not as enamored by the 15" wheels front and rear.
Looks like a toaster fuel tank from a BMW.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:02 am

Sign me up. I like it as much as I like the NC700X, which means that if I had the jack, I'd be buying one. This one is a bit more enticing because it takes the elements of the big Ruckus that I like and synthesizes them with a standard motorcycle. I also like the powerplant size. The only deal breaker for me would be if they only offered it with a DCT; I'm not ready to eschew the visceral pleasures of rowing my own gears yet.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:41 am

az_slynch wrote:Sign me up. I like it as much as I like the NC700X, which means that if I had the jack, I'd be buying one. This one is a bit more enticing because it takes the elements of the big Ruckus that I like and synthesizes them with a standard motorcycle. I also like the powerplant size. The only deal breaker for me would be if they only offered it with a DCT; I'm not ready to eschew the visceral pleasures of rowing my own gears yet.

Agreed on all points. I'm uncertain on the DCT. The only spec I can find says it's a 6-speed. The DCT may be too pricey for the markets in which this machine will be marketed. I love the idea of a torquey 400cc twin.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:00 am

I sure do wish that picture was taken next to a yardstick (meterstick?). I kinda like it, but it looks like a Grom without any kinda of size hint.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:32 am

jrsjr wrote:
az_slynch wrote:Sign me up. I like it as much as I like the NC700X, which means that if I had the jack, I'd be buying one. This one is a bit more enticing because it takes the elements of the big Ruckus that I like and synthesizes them with a standard motorcycle. I also like the powerplant size. The only deal breaker for me would be if they only offered it with a DCT; I'm not ready to eschew the visceral pleasures of rowing my own gears yet.
Agreed on all points. I'm uncertain on the DCT. The only spec I can find says it's a 6-speed. The DCT may be too pricey for the markets in which this machine will be marketed. I love the idea of a torquey 400cc twin.

Watch the following video. There's a clutch arm on the case. Now, it needs to make production.

https://youtu.be/b-8TPZJi3xw

Hey Syd, we know the seat height is 28 inches. Take a side view image of it and measure botton to tires to top of seat. You'll have a conversion factor then to gauge the rest of the dimensions.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:34 pm

Syd wrote:I sure do wish that picture was taken next to a yardstick (meterstick?). I kinda like it, but it looks like a Grom without any kinda of size hint.

What az_slynch said, plus we know the wheels are 15 inches. After some fiddling around, I managed to catch the moment in a video where you could see a rider on the bike. Just look hard at the folks and take an educated guess at their size. I think the standing woman is about 5'6" and the seated woman is perhaps an inch shorter. See what you think.

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:35 pm

Dooglas wrote:Certainly a step in a different direction - but it looks more like an adventure bike with a little more emphasis on dirt road than some. Which part is the scooter?

I agree. Without a step through frame and with that huge fuel tank on top and in front of the rider it's 100% motorcycle and an off-road one at that. It's not even close to being a scooter.

Bill in Seattle
'09 150 Blackjack
'12 170i Italia

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:20 am

skipper20 wrote:
Dooglas wrote:Certainly a step in a different direction - but it looks more like an adventure bike with a little more emphasis on dirt road than some. Which part is the scooter?
I agree. Without a step through frame and with that huge fuel tank on top and in front of the rider...

Would it make a difference if that wasn't a fuel tank? I ask because it's actually built-in storage (like scooter underseat storage) that opens to the side. Take a look.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:30 am

I like it. It is a step in a good direction that the U.S. will probably not take, although the success of some small displacement cycles are encouraging.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:09 am

jrsjr wrote: I'm uncertain on the DCT. The only spec I can find says it's a 6-speed. The DCT may be too pricey for the markets in which this machine will be marketed. I love the idea of a torquey 400cc twin.

I love my DCT 99% of the time. Sometimes in the twisties I wish for a friction zone. It's a marvelous commuter,

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:30 pm

I remember the Big Ruckus did not sell well, at least on our coast/local dealerships. The few we got sat around on the show room floor until that one person came around and took it home. On the flip side, you never see one come up for sale, and when they do they command top dollar and sell quick. High price was the main gripe from what I recall. If priced right this Bulldog should do pretty good. The new Tailand factory has made their "lower" end product more affordable with the quality you expect from the Japan built product. As much as I like flat floors I like the Bulldog. So ugly its cute! I said the same thing when the Big Ruck came out, but I still had my sexy Helix at the time.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:35 pm

jrsjr wrote:Would it make a difference if that wasn't a fuel tank? I ask because it's actually built-in storage (like scooter underseat storage) that opens to the side. Take a look.

It is not so much a matter of what does not make it a scooter, but of what attributes do make it a scooter or scooter-like. Surely 15" wheels aren't it, so what is?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:54 pm

Dooglas wrote:
jrsjr wrote:Would it make a difference if that wasn't a fuel tank? I ask because it's actually built-in storage (like scooter underseat storage) that opens to the side. Take a look.
It is not so much a matter of what does not make it a scooter, but of what attributes do make it a scooter or scooter-like. Surely 15" wheels aren't it, so what is?

I just thought from the front it looked a lot like the Honda Big Ruckus. You are right, though, other than the similarity in appearance to the Big Ruckus from the front, the built-in storage space that reminds me of the traditional scooter underseat storage, the small wheels, and the low utilitarian bench seat which looks to me like it was designed so folks can step onto it (rather than through it like a scooter), it's definitely 100% a motorcycle.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:08 pm

I like it, but with some caveats.

I'd like to see different color schemes. The black/teal is sort of boring. I could see it being badass with a military type color scheme - or really playful with a bright and colorful scheme.

I hope they can keep the weight under 300 pounds dry.

It definitely needs an auto transmission. Especially since the offroad world knows that an auto transmission is the holy grail. If it had an auto transmission with front and rear handbrakes like a scooter, I'd buy one in a split second.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:32 pm

jrsjr wrote:I just thought from the front it looked a lot like the Honda Big Ruckus. You are right, though, other than the similarity in appearance to the Big Ruckus from the front, the built-in storage space that reminds me of the traditional scooter underseat storage, the small wheels, and the low utilitarian bench seat which looks to me like it was designed so folks can step onto it (rather than through it like a scooter), it's definitely 100% a motorcycle.

I'm not looking for an argument. I am just puzzled about what says "scooter" about that design. I have owned motorcycles with multiple headlights. I have owned motorcycles with storage in the tank. I've owned motorcycles with a 15" wheel. And I've owned motorcycles with a utilitarian bench seat. Nobody ever told me any of them looked like a scooter. (and I do understand there is no real resolution to this discussion - there have been many past conversations here and on other sites about what constitutes a scooter with no decisive answer)

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:04 am

Dooglas wrote:Certainly a step in a different direction - but it looks more like an adventure bike with a little more emphasis on dirt road than some. Which part is the scooter?

I'm with Dooglas on this - a scooter is usually defined by the step through body configuration. This looks like a automatic motorcycle configuration but it still looks quite cool.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:13 am

Very unlikely that the Bulldog will have DCT. According to the press releases, the 400cc twin is based on the current CB500 engine.

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:24 pm

Since scooters are increasing in popularity, the word scooter=easy to ride. China scoots have defenintly expanded exsposure. Motorcycles still seem dangerous to those who dont ride them. Add in a automatic (or even semi-auto) transmission and it seems to make it "safer and easier to control", like a scooter. Step-thru, to me, defines a scooter-so does low seat height and automatic everything. Bulldog is missing the Step-thru. And yes, K1dude, vibant colors are needed. Getting tired of pre-stolen matte/dark colors too.

EvilNerdLord · Post by **EvilNerdLord** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:40 pm

I thought so...

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:07 pm

As a petite female, my buying decision was largely driven by the fact that I don't want a ride where it's difficult to reach the ground or that dwarfs me even if it's a really low riding seat. I also don't want a small-sized, small-engine bike where the weight of the bike makes the top speed and gas mileage lower than a 125cc scooter. So... that rules out the vast majority of motorcycles in the US market.

Reasons for me getting a scooter: seat height, low body weight, mpg, storage, parking at bike racks (even if not technically legal).

Reasons for upgrading to something bigger: top speed that could get me on a road that would cut my current commute in half.

This might be a workable compromise... if I weren't so attached to my Buddy. '-)

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:35 am

sunshinen wrote:As a petite female, my buying decision was largely driven by the fact that I don't want a ride where it's difficult to reach the ground or that dwarfs me even if it's a really low riding seat. I also don't want a small-sized, small-engine bike where the weight of the bike makes the top speed and gas mileage lower than a 125cc scooter. So... that rules out the vast majority of motorcycles in the US market.

Reasons for me getting a scooter: seat height, low body weight, mpg, storage, parking at bike racks (even if not technically legal).

Reasons for upgrading to something bigger: top speed that could get me on a road that would cut my current commute in half.

This might be a workable compromise... if I weren't so attached to my Buddy. '-)

Really interesting post. Thanks! I'm curious, did you happen to see the video? The woman in that video right at the 1:00 minute mark certainly makes it look easy to straddle.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:47 am

I didn't watch the video, but I saw the standover height of 28in. Watching someone else straddle a bike rarely means much unless you know how their inseam compares to yours.

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:05 am

jrsjr wrote: Really interesting post. Thanks! I'm curious, did you happen to see the video? The woman in that video right at the 1:00 minute mark certainly makes it look easy to straddle.

Yeah, there was so much I wanted to add to your statement. For the sake of keeping it classy, I will only remark that it looks like a bike developed by Lego.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:24 am

ScooterDave wrote:...I will only remark that it looks like a bike developed by Lego.

You do realize that a Lego-themed advertising campaign featuring an animated version of the Bulldog with "Everything is Awesome" droning in the background would probably sell tens of millions of these bikes, right?

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:54 pm

Who doesn't love legos?

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:41 am

Use the "Fell In Love With A Girl" song by the White Stripes, but have the commercial build the bike with Lego's instead! Always loved that video. Then again, only us oldies would get it!