Kick

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

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Drum Pro
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Kick

Post by Drum Pro »

Anyone put their money down on one yet? Genuine is coming out with names like Kymco :lol:
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RoaringTodd
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Post by RoaringTodd »

Wishing someone would come out with a 200cc version of something.

There's a glut of 125 and 150 class scooters. I'd be interested in a scooter that fits nicely between the maxi scooters/Vespa GTS and the 150/170 scooter class.

Man o Man if the Sym Cabo came out in 250cc version that'd be great.
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Post by tysondav »

RoaringTodd wrote:Wishing someone would come out with a 200cc version of something.

There's a glut of 125 and 150 class scooters. I'd be interested in a scooter that fits nicely between the maxi scooters/Vespa GTS and the 150/170 scooter class.

Man o Man if the Sym Cabo came out in 250cc version that'd be great.
I just bought the Cabo 150, but if there had been a 250 version I would have definitely gotten that instead.
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Post by scootERIK »

RoaringTodd wrote:Wishing someone would come out with a 200cc version of something.

There's a glut of 125 and 150 class scooters. I'd be interested in a scooter that fits nicely between the maxi scooters/Vespa GTS and the 150/170 scooter class.

Man o Man if the Sym Cabo came out in 250cc version that'd be great.
I would like to see a 200-250 cc Hooligan, ideally set up so it can run 65 mph all day long. Honda was able to do that ~30 years ago when they made the Elite 250.
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Post by az_slynch »

scootERIK wrote:
RoaringTodd wrote:Wishing someone would come out with a 200cc version of something.

There's a glut of 125 and 150 class scooters. I'd be interested in a scooter that fits nicely between the maxi scooters/Vespa GTS and the 150/170 scooter class.

Man o Man if the Sym Cabo came out in 250cc version that'd be great.
I would like to see a 200-250 cc Hooligan, ideally set up so it can run 65 mph all day long. Honda was able to do that ~30 years ago when they made the Elite 250.
Remember folks, the 250cc scooters are liquid cooled with front-mounted radiators and several feet of plumbing. Liquid cooling adds cost and complexity to the motor. I wouldn't call it impossible, but it may take a while for compact liquid cooling systems like that first found on the Honda Ruckus & Metropolitan II, then scaled up on the Yamaha S-MAX to scale to cool a 250cc engine. Until then, the S-MAX can almost hit 80 on 155cc...swap in a motor from a wrecked one!
At what point does a hobby become an addiction? I'm uncertain, but after the twelfth scooter, it sorta feels like the latter...

Seriously...I've lost count...

Seven mopeds ...that's still manageable...
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Post by skipper20 »

RoaringTodd wrote:Wishing someone would come out with a 200cc version of something.

There's a glut of 125 and 150 class scooters. I'd be interested in a scooter that fits nicely between the maxi scooters/Vespa GTS and the 150/170 scooter class.

Man o Man if the Sym Cabo came out in 250cc version that'd be great.
How about the Genuine Blur 220i? Or, did Genuine give up on that one? If they did, there are probably unsold ones still sitting in dealer show rooms priced to move. The pros: 220cc air-cooled (less parts to wear out), fuel injected engine and sports bike styling. The cons: smallish fuel tank meaning limited touring ability.

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in Tucson
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Post by avescoots1134 »

The Vespa GTS has been owning the mid-sized scooter market for some time now and not too many of those owners are going to ditch their Vespa and buy a Genuine. As much as we may love the mid-sized scooter class, not enough are sold to make the market worthwhile in the US. The same people who say "I'd totally buy that!!" will gawk at the couple extra thousand on the price tag and change their minds. Even the Kymco People 200 and 250 didn't make it - both amazing machines.
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Post by viney266 »

Sym has a pair of water cooled 200's and a 300. I don't see many on the road. I have a friend with a SYM RV250, pretty nice bike. I really liked the 220 blur, but they didn't sell all that well. I thought the blur was great. 70 MPH and great brakes.

I have never cared for maxi scooters. Maybe because I have larger motorcycles if I need all that. I own 2 stellas, and my kids have a buddy 125 and a Cabo 150. Those are both great bikes, but I admit. I would love a 250 scooter like the GTS Vespa, without the $7K pricetag. I like the mid-size class very much; still a small scooter but able to do the highway. I am tempted by the Sym citycom 300, but it just doesn't amaze me looks wise.
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
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Post by wheelbender6 »

"Wishing someone would come out with a 200cc version of something. "
I would get a 200 model only if the engine was close to 200cc.
There are too many 200 models for sale by big names with less than 180cc (some are under 170cc!).
I admire Genuine for naming the 170i honestly, rather than calling it a 200 model.
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Re: Kick

Post by skipper20 »

Drum Pro wrote:Anyone put their money down on one yet? Genuine is coming out with names like Kymco :lol:
With the exception of the warm, cuddly name "Buddy" and the feminine "Stella", Genuine seems to go for tough, aggressive macho names such as Roughhouse, Psycho, Hooligan, Blackjack, and Rattler so "Kick" is no exception. "Punch" will probably be the next model name or maybe "Knockout"? Either one would make for an interesting logo.

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in Tucson
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Post by skully93 »

viney266 wrote:S
I have never cared for maxi scooters. Maybe because I have larger motorcycles if I need all that. I own 2 stellas, and my kids have a buddy 125 and a Cabo 150. Those are both great bikes, but I admit. I would love a 250 scooter like the GTS Vespa, without the $7K pricetag. I like the mid-size class very much; still a small scooter but able to do the highway. I am tempted by the Sym citycom 300, but it just doesn't amaze me looks wise.
I'm right there with you. I tried to love maxi-scoots, and I had that aprilia 500ie that I took wherever I wanted to.

however the upkeep and initial price tag if you buy it new....I can buy 2 used motorcycles that will do the job better and with longer life/mileage.

We don't use the interstate much, but if I do, the CTX is just a much better tool at that price. Not that I would turn down a vespa 300 if you gave me one :P
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Post by RoaringTodd »

I think what all of us are saying is we want a Vespa 300 GTS without the price tag.

The styling, the specifications, and ease to work on.

As Viney288 said, there are SYM 300 scooters, but my problem is the "maxi scoot" look.

Take the Hooligan, the Sym Cabo, and quite even the Kick, and fatten them a little bit up, and put in a 200 - 250cc engine, and I think that's quite a winner.

Sym Fiddle III is rumored to be a 200 efi scooter but I have not yet seen the release of those. I did see some color schemes, however that didnt strike my fancy.

However, it all comes down to ergos for me. I loved the Cabo when I rode it for 1,000 miles over 4 days. However the handlebars hit my knees on turns.

RT
Last edited by RoaringTodd on Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RoaringTodd »

News article from December 2014 (Chicago Motorcycle Show)

http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/ar ... -new-rides

In terms of displacement, SYM/Lance scaled up the fuel-injected Fiddle III to 200cc from the Fiddle II’s 125cc. For handling the SYM offers both front and rear discs and the tires have been scaled up from the Fiddle II’s 10 inch hoops to a more reassuring 12 inch tire size. Poised for a spring launch, the Fiddle III will retail fro an MSRP of $2,699.
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Post by Christophers »

RoaringTodd wrote:

Sym Fiddle III is rumored to be a 200 efi scooter but I have not yet seen the release of those. I did see some color schemes, however that didnt strike my fancy.

RT
Fiddle III 200i
COMING SOON
169cc Fuel Injection Engine with Ceramic-coated Cylinder Technology

169cc Engine / 62mph Top Speed
11.8HP Horsepower / 7500RPM

http://www.alliancepowersports.com/models/
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Post by RoaringTodd »

EEERRGGHH...

another pseudo 200cc scooter bites the dust.

Just noticed now the RV200 and HD200 have the same engine but the RV looks quite a bit heavier...

Back to the regular programming folks... Genuine Kick.
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Post by skipper20 »

Christophers wrote:
RoaringTodd wrote:

Sym Fiddle III is rumored to be a 200 efi scooter but I have not yet seen the release of those. I did see some color schemes, however that didnt strike my fancy.

RT
Fiddle III 200i
COMING SOON
169cc Fuel Injection Engine with Ceramic-coated Cylinder Technology

169cc Engine / 62mph Top Speed
11.8HP Horsepower / 7500RPM

http://www.alliancepowersports.com/models/
It looks almost identical to the Kymco Like 200i and the specs are about the same as well including the Kymco's 163cc EFI engine and the Sym's 169cc EFI engine. Note that both mfrs. round those numbers up to 200i for their model designation. As somebody earlier pointed out, Genuine is at least honest with their 169cc EFI engine 170i model designation.

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in AZ
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Post by Syd »

Basically, a BBK on the Fiddle II. Too bad they couldn't find room for the HD's 171 (and radiator, of course). I'd be on that like flies on stink.
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Post by az_slynch »

RoaringTodd wrote:EEERRGGHH...

another pseudo 200cc scooter bites the dust.
Maybe this doesn't bug me as much because I remember how AMD tagged the "+" on their processors for a while. As I recall, an Athlon XP 2000+ actually clocked at 1,667 MHz...must've been electron-injected or something.

Or, it's because my "200" is only a liquid-cooled, fuel-injected 174.5cc making a trifling 14.5 horsepower, yet it can still get my butt down the road at 75mph. That's a fudge I can live with.

Point is, quit splitting hairs on displacement. Focus on technologies that can make small motors faster. Syd nailed it on liquid-cooling being the most critical piece; fuel injection and 4-valve cylinder heads are the frosting and sprinkles for a powerful scooter motor.

If you own a Jetforce 125 Compressor...then you're just a lucky bastard!
At what point does a hobby become an addiction? I'm uncertain, but after the twelfth scooter, it sorta feels like the latter...

Seriously...I've lost count...

Seven mopeds ...that's still manageable...
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Post by sc00ter »

The Yager is a great scooter, albeit kinda weird looking. A friend called it a baby Helix. I always wanted a Yager after reading the Just Gotta Scoot review and because I has a People 250 (ugly, older rounded one) and it was a straight up tank. A local shop has a used People GT300i Kymco big wheeler for sale. Im tempted but wife wants something with local support and we have no Kymco dealers even remotely close. Their are a few good Kymco online parts vendors with upfront prices and exploded parts diagrams (take note SYM) and I know a Kymco wont give me any problems....... Oh, anyways, she wants a Burgman 200 still. For some reason Im not feeling it. Like getting a minivan when you really wanted a sports car! Man I still wish that GTS 300 Vespa fit our fat butts 2 up. So fun to ride, just cramped with 2 people on it-that was my idea of a sports car! Burgman 200 (minivan) fits us fine but I cannot get a test ride. Thats a deal breaker, its like they know its too weak to haul 2 people around or something. So the search continues.....
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Post by Syd »

I wanted the Kymco People 300GT when it came out. Then I sat on it. Honestly, I had more room on my Schwinn Campus 50 than I had on the 300GT. Bummed me out.
The majority is always sane - Nessus
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Post by viney266 »

RoaringTodd wrote:EEERRGGHH...

another pseudo 200cc scooter bites the dust.

Just noticed now the RV200 and HD200 have the same engine but the RV looks quite a bit heavier...

Back to the regular programming folks... Genuine Kick.
^^^ Not quite. If you look at the enlarged GY6 class motors 125, 150, 163,168, they all make 10-12 HP and are air cooled. With top speeds of 60MPH ish

The SYM 200's are WATER cooled motors in the 172cc range making 15 HP with top speeds in the mid 70's. A big step of 3-4 HP.

Still not the GTS 300 (actually a 278) we want with 20 ish HP, but closer.

Where did the awesome 250 class go?

The blur 220 was close, but it wasn't received well by some ( I liked it)
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Post by sc00ter »

Broke down and got us (wife and I) a Burgman 200. Still got the powder blue Buddy 125, so you have not gotten rid of me yet. So far, so fun!
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Post by wheelbender6 »

"Where did the awesome 250 class go? "
Good question. I think manufacturers regrettably styled their 250cc scooters to look like bigger maxi scooters. They were a "compromise" in a lot of areas.
_Current scooter shoppers seem to want a true maxi scooter, with a bigger engine or stick with the lighter 125-150 cc machines. Maxi scooters, in most cases, cost significantly more than a motorcycle with the same sized engine, reducing their market share.
The 200 class scooters move the "compromise" closer to the light scoots. The Burgman 200 seems to have perfected that compromise. The SMAX and Blur come close.
_I don't carp about 40cc of displacement on bigger motorcycles and scoots. On a smaller 200 class scoot, 30-40cc is too much for me to ignore, because of my situation. For me to spend the money for a bigger scooter, I must to be able to hit 70mph on the flats, dramatically increasing the amount of roads that I can travel without holding up traffic.
Last edited by wheelbender6 on Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ericalm »

The 250cc class has been stuck at the bottom of the "reliably freeway capable" range for a while. Those who want a scooter for off-freeway commuting don't need the expense of a 250cc (though some go for it or other large scoots anyways). Even with top speeds of 90mph or so, many 250s struggle in some freeway conditions — uphill, against a strong headwind, etc. An extra 40-50cc makes a big difference.

We need to remember that outside the US, retro/classic-styled scooters aren't in high demand. The Honda SH300 is one of the best sellers in Europe. The maxis are sport-styled largely because they have large wheels, bigger suspensions, water cooling, etc. that aren't amenable to the retro style. (About the closest thing aside from the Vespas I can recall is the mid-2000s Scarabeo 500.) Then, once they get the bigger CCs and range, riders want more comfort, storage, bells and whistles and next thing you know it's a Burgman.

There's a lot of chatter on the Honda Helix boards about why they don't make a new, updated Helix. They do; it's just called a Forza now. Once you put all that modern stuff people want into it, it's not going to be that old thing anymore.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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