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125/150 Buddy belt size contradiction - let's clear this up!

 
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Tocsik
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: 125/150 Buddy belt size contradiction - let's clear this up! Reply with quote

I have another thread going related to upgrading my variator, changing my sliders and replacing the belt. I have been told by several on this forum that the belt size on the International 150 is the same size as the 125's.

I just called Sportique Scooters and the tech said that the belts are different and the 150's use the same belt as the Blur.

He gave me the following number: 812 X 20 X 28 X 9.5.

Now, I love this forum and appreciate all of the great info available, but I am now officially confused as to which damn belt to get! Confused

Has anyone actually changed the belt on a Buddy 150?

POC Phil - if you are out there, please chime in!

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jfrost2
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how much larger that is, but from a guess it sounds way too big.

I am 100% certain 743/20/30 is the correct size. I know this for fact because both the 125 and 150 have 100% same transmission, plus, I have helped people on this site with variator mods, and 743/20/30 is the size they purchased.

Kaos wrote:

they both use the same belt and transmission, the replacement belt for them is the same.
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Tocsik
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I called 2 scooter shops and their computers' info is that the Buddy 150 uses the same belt as the Blur (812 X 20 X 28 X 9.5) which is different than the 125.

So I emailed Genuine:
Quote:
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: info@genuinescooters.com
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: belt size contradiction

I am getting conflicting info on the belt size for the Buddy International 150.
One source states the 125 and the 150 use the same belt but my dealer says the 150's use the same belt as the Blur and gave me the following number: 812 X 20 X 28 X 9.5.

Can you please confirm what belt I need?
I am hoping to get Kevlar.

Thanks much!


Their reply:
Quote:
Thank you for the email.

Because of the very issue you have run into, I discourage dealers and customers from asking if a part from one scooter fits on another scooter.

The part nubmer you need is C1123702000. If your dealer orders this part number for your Buddy 150, you will get the correct-sized belt.

I hope this is helpful information.


Notice there is not an actual anwer to my question.
So:

Quote:
Thanks for getting back to me so quick and sorry to have to ask a follow-up.
Two questions:

What are the dimensions of the belt for the 150's?
Is the part number you provided for a kevlar belt?

Thanks again,

Their answer:
Quote:
We use a Bando V-belt. It is nylon. We chose nylon over kevlar because nylon is more durable than kevlar. Our factory engineers did extensive testing on both types and the nylon belts outperformed the kevlar belts by a considerable margin.

The reason is that in extreme heat conditions, nylon expands at the same rate as rubber. Kevlar does not expand at the same rate as rubber.

What this means is that with kevlar belts, the kevlar portion is much more likely to delaminate from the rubber portion when it gets hot.

I hope this is helpful information.


Again, notice I am still not given the dimensions of the belt for the Buddy 150. So I called Sportique and their part number for the 150 belt does not match the part number given to me by Genuine. So... I picked up the phone to call Genuine and it was one minute after their office closed. Evil or Very Mad
So I sent another email asking for the dimensions again and will await their answer. Rolling Eyes

This is nuts!

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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhmmm... You could take an 8mm socket and open up the cvt and look... I'd do that if I still had my Buddy 150. As I recall, the Buddy 150's belt size had a 28 degree angle in it, but it wasn't as long as the Blur's Belt. That was a while ago, and I could just be getting the numbers mixed up in my head.
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jfrost2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask why you avoid all my responses when I have answered your question 3 times already? I do not like to be ignored and put off to the side as if I was being no help to you. I've answered the question several times already with CORRECT information.

743/20/30 is what you need to buy. Both the 150 and 125 have 100% same transmission. The only difference between the 125 and the 150 is 25cc's and a oil cooler. That's it.
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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just suggesting that he open the CVT and look if he wants to be 100% sure. Personally I just want confirmation on the size so that I know if I'm loosing my memory or not.
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jfrost2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant that post directed at tocsik, I find it frustrating he asks a question, I answer it, and he still goes off asking the same question again as if no one has answered him yet.
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Kaos
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're the same size. I've installed belts in both the 125 and the 150. Same transmission. Same belt.
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jfrost2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be the 2nd time you have said this Kaos, and the 4th time I have also. Yet the question still remains...
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Tocsik
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfrost2,
hey, I'm not avoiding your responses, ignoring you or disregarding you. I appreciate the responses and help. It's just difficult for those of us that do not work on these motors ourselves to confidently order the parts; especially when my dealer (who does the work) and Genuine are muddying the waters.

Personally, I go with folks like yourself on this forum with the knowledge and experience but it's still frustrating when I get conflicting information.

The 150's haven't been out that long and there are enough subtle differences that there seems to be a lot of confusion out there regarding compatiblity of parts - even on this forum. For instance, I have read that the 150's are based more on a standard GY6 than the 125's. Also, aside from just the bore of the cylinder, some of the internal engine parts are different such as the camshaft length.

Thanks, again for your input and help but I'm not going to apologize for trying to order the right parts.

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Kaos
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tocsik wrote:
jfrost2,
hey, I'm not avoiding your responses, ignoring you or disregarding you. I appreciate the responses and help. It's just difficult for those of us that do not work on these motors ourselves to confidently order the parts; especially when my dealer (who does the work) and Genuine are muddying the waters.

Personally, I go with folks like yourself on this forum with the knowledge and experience but it's still frustrating when I get conflicting information.

The 150's haven't been out that long and there are enough subtle differences that there seems to be a lot of confusion out there regarding compatiblity of parts - even on this forum. For instance, I have read that the 150's are based more on a standard GY6 than the 125's. Also, aside from just the bore of the cylinder, some of the internal engine parts are different such as the camshaft length.

Thanks, again for your input and help but I'm not going to apologize for trying to order the right parts.


No, both motors are 100% GY6. The trick is that there are several variants of the GY6. The biggest difference between the 125 and the 150 is that the 125 uses the 32/16 camshaft/crankshaft sprocket tooth combination while the 150 uses the 34/17 tooth combo. The 125 also uses the 13mm wrist pin, while the 150 uses a 15mm wrist pin. These differences are basically because the 125 is based on the smaller line of GY6's(the 50cc through 100cc variant) but just has a stroker crank to take it up to 125cc, while the 150cc engine is based on the larger(125cc-200cc) GY6 variant. All of the parts can be interchanged, but some will requre you to swap more than one part. For example, if you want to use a 150cc cylinder kit on the 125cc, you'll also have to swap the crank to get the larger 15mm wrist pin size. Things like the 150's head and the cam can be just bolted in, though the cam will have to have the sprocket from your 125 cam swapped onto it so its a 32 tooth cam.

The length of the camshafts are the same, the internal engine parts are all basically standard GY6 with differences more due to size than being "more" or "less" GY6. MANY of my speed parts are generic GY6 parts.

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DennisD
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaos wrote:
Tocsik wrote:
jfrost2,
hey, I'm not avoiding your responses, ignoring you or disregarding you. I appreciate the responses and help. It's just difficult for those of us that do not work on these motors ourselves to confidently order the parts; especially when my dealer (who does the work) and Genuine are muddying the waters.

Personally, I go with folks like yourself on this forum with the knowledge and experience but it's still frustrating when I get conflicting information.

The 150's haven't been out that long and there are enough subtle differences that there seems to be a lot of confusion out there regarding compatiblity of parts - even on this forum. For instance, I have read that the 150's are based more on a standard GY6 than the 125's. Also, aside from just the bore of the cylinder, some of the internal engine parts are different such as the camshaft length.

Thanks, again for your input and help but I'm not going to apologize for trying to order the right parts.


No, both motors are 100% GY6. The trick is that there are several variants of the GY6. The biggest difference between the 125 and the 150 is that the 125 uses the 32/16 camshaft/crankshaft sprocket tooth combination while the 150 uses the 34/17 tooth combo. The 125 also uses the 13mm wrist pin, while the 150 uses a 15mm wrist pin. These differences are basically because the 125 is based on the smaller line of GY6's(the 50cc through 100cc variant) but just has a stroker crank to take it up to 125cc, while the 150cc engine is based on the larger(125cc-200cc) GY6 variant. All of the parts can be interchanged, but some will requre you to swap more than one part. For example, if you want to use a 150cc cylinder kit on the 125cc, you'll also have to swap the crank to get the larger 15mm wrist pin size. Things like the 150's head and the cam can be just bolted in, though the cam will have to have the sprocket from your 125 cam swapped onto it so its a 32 tooth cam.

The length of the camshafts are the same, the internal engine parts are all basically standard GY6 with differences more due to size than being "more" or "less" GY6. MANY of my speed parts are generic GY6 parts.


Soooooo, is that why the belts are different???????

Crying or Very sad Twisted Evil
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Kaos
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisD wrote:
Kaos wrote:
Tocsik wrote:
jfrost2,
hey, I'm not avoiding your responses, ignoring you or disregarding you. I appreciate the responses and help. It's just difficult for those of us that do not work on these motors ourselves to confidently order the parts; especially when my dealer (who does the work) and Genuine are muddying the waters.

Personally, I go with folks like yourself on this forum with the knowledge and experience but it's still frustrating when I get conflicting information.

The 150's haven't been out that long and there are enough subtle differences that there seems to be a lot of confusion out there regarding compatiblity of parts - even on this forum. For instance, I have read that the 150's are based more on a standard GY6 than the 125's. Also, aside from just the bore of the cylinder, some of the internal engine parts are different such as the camshaft length.

Thanks, again for your input and help but I'm not going to apologize for trying to order the right parts.


No, both motors are 100% GY6. The trick is that there are several variants of the GY6. The biggest difference between the 125 and the 150 is that the 125 uses the 32/16 camshaft/crankshaft sprocket tooth combination while the 150 uses the 34/17 tooth combo. The 125 also uses the 13mm wrist pin, while the 150 uses a 15mm wrist pin. These differences are basically because the 125 is based on the smaller line of GY6's(the 50cc through 100cc variant) but just has a stroker crank to take it up to 125cc, while the 150cc engine is based on the larger(125cc-200cc) GY6 variant. All of the parts can be interchanged, but some will requre you to swap more than one part. For example, if you want to use a 150cc cylinder kit on the 125cc, you'll also have to swap the crank to get the larger 15mm wrist pin size. Things like the 150's head and the cam can be just bolted in, though the cam will have to have the sprocket from your 125 cam swapped onto it so its a 32 tooth cam.

The length of the camshafts are the same, the internal engine parts are all basically standard GY6 with differences more due to size than being "more" or "less" GY6. MANY of my speed parts are generic GY6 parts.


Soooooo, is that why the belts are different???????

Crying or Very sad Twisted Evil


Quiet you! You'll confuse the poor man Wink

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jfrost2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tocsik wrote:
jfrost2,
hey, I'm not avoiding your responses, ignoring you or disregarding you. I appreciate the responses and help. It's just difficult for those of us that do not work on these motors ourselves to confidently order the parts; especially when my dealer (who does the work) and Genuine are muddying the waters.

Personally, I go with folks like yourself on this forum with the knowledge and experience but it's still frustrating when I get conflicting information.

The 150's haven't been out that long and there are enough subtle differences that there seems to be a lot of confusion out there regarding compatiblity of parts - even on this forum. For instance, I have read that the 150's are based more on a standard GY6 than the 125's. Also, aside from just the bore of the cylinder, some of the internal engine parts are different such as the camshaft length.

Thanks, again for your input and help but I'm not going to apologize for trying to order the right parts.


I appreciate your response back, I dont expect you to apologize for trying to find the right part yourself, I can understand how asking and trusting what a dealer tells you to be correct. I'm just trying to point you into the right direction when you're getting unclear and false responses everywhere else.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add a bit o' fuel to the fire, don't presume that an aftermarket belt from another manufacturer that happens to marked with the same specs as the orginal belt is going to fit just like a new OEM replacement belt; some belt manufacturers measure inner v. outer circumference, & some do it more accurately than others...
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DennisD
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

B02S4 wrote:
Just to add a bit o' fuel to the fire, don't presume that an aftermarket belt from another manufacturer that happens to marked with the same specs as the orginal belt is going to fit just like a new OEM replacement belt; some belt manufacturers measure inner v. outer circumference, & some do it more accurately than others...


Hear hear!

Some folks on the Helix forum have tried to save some money buying the "same size" Gates belt ($12) for their Honda Helix instead of the original Honda ($67-$80). That has not worked out well at all. I like replacement parts from the manufacturer even if they are more expensive. Usually less problems, especially if you're not a gear head.
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jfrost2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The parts I am reffering him to purchase do indeed work and fit perfectly like stock, but they have slower wearing, and better grip because of the kevlar. Although people will argue nylon belts are better, kevlar has worked fine in the buddy without issues.
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Mastedon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a Buddy 125 and I just had to pop off the housing to find the variator pulley disintegrated (and the shaft splines worn off). The belt on this scooter says PGO 743-20-28. Could this be a performance mod, or just someone who did not have the right belt?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted. didn't realize this was a necro-post
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 6 years, I think the waters have settled. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mastedon wrote:
We have a Buddy 125 and I just had to pop off the housing to find the variator pulley disintegrated (and the shaft splines worn off). The belt on this scooter says PGO 743-20-28. Could this be a performance mod, or just someone who did not have the right belt?
I stock a 743-20-30 belt for 125/150's.

I'm going to guess just not the correct belt.
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scootERIK
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure I have run both the 743-20-30(Bando and Gates) and the 743-20-28, I believe it is a Bando brand belt that comes in a PGO plastic bag, it is the belt the local dealer carries for the Buddy. I think they order them straight from Genuine. I didn't notice any difference between the two sizes, not sure on the longevity of the 743-20-28 since it only has about ~4k on it.

When it gets warmer out I can take my cvt cover off to double check.


My one piece of advice is to go with the regular Bando brand belt. The Gates belt I had was kind of crappy, it started to come apart(like pieces of the belt falling off.) The Bando belts just wears out(gets smaller) even with close to 14k they looked ok.
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lovemysan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scooterwrench wrote:
Mastedon wrote:
We have a Buddy 125 and I just had to pop off the housing to find the variator pulley disintegrated (and the shaft splines worn off). The belt on this scooter says PGO 743-20-28. Could this be a performance mod, or just someone who did not have the right belt?
I stock a 743-20-30 belt for 125/150's.

I'm going to guess just not the correct belt.


743 20 28 is the oem belt. 743 20 30 works just fine. I've seen several 743-20-28 on buddies. I run gates 743-20-30.

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