Installed Tubeless Rims and Tires

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:06 pm

I was not comfortable with tubed tires. They can be a real pain in the butt - both figuratively and literally. So I bought a set of black tubeless rims from ScootRS and a set of Michelin S 83 (59J) tires. The tires are reinforced. They make the bike ride better (subjective) and give me peace of mind.

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:50 pm

Which ones did you buy, the PX/10? And what is your tire pressure?

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:24 pm

djp4059 wrote:Which ones did you buy, the PX/10? And what is your tire pressure?

I bought the PX/10 and keep 20 psi in the front and 30 psi in the rear.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:22 pm

Nice bike..
And where did you get your rear rack?
Baddddassss. I had on on an 08 Stella, but the previous owner put it on.
Where?, pray tell.. did you get yours?

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:26 pm

also, did you mount the tires on the rims yourself? If so, was it a bitch of a job to do? Because I have changed tires and tubes on mine split rims, and it wasn't so bad. If I could do it myself on those one piece rims, change the tires also, myself, that would be great. But I am wondering if you need a tire machine to do that?

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:38 pm

jimmbomb wrote:Nice bike..
And where did you get your rear rack?
Baddddassss. I had on on an 08 Stella, but the previous owner put it on.
Where?, pray tell.. did you get yours?

The rack was an expensive indulgence. I bought it from Love LML in the U.K. It is actually an LML product not available here. Very strong, very expensive. $200 U.S. with shipping. Love was very easy to deal with and it shipped very quickly. I couldn't wait for Scooterworks to come out with one because I use the rack as a tie down point and want to trailer my scooter to a couple of events in the near future including Amerivespa in June. The rack attaches easily.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:43 pm

jimmbomb wrote:also, did you mount the tires on the rims yourself? If so, was it a bitch of a job to do? Because I have changed tires and tubes on mine split rims, and it wasn't so bad. If I could do it myself on those one piece rims, change the tires also, myself, that would be great. But I am wondering if you need a tire machine to do that?

I let my local mechanic do the mounting. Using a tire iron and mounting lube it is a matter of finesse and some strength. At 67 I lack both but in the day I mounted many tires. It's a great learning experience.

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:49 pm

Thanks for your help. Ordered mine today. How long did it take to get them, since they come from Asia, and did you have to pay a duty on them. Amazing that the shipping costs are extremely high.

EvilNerdLord · Post by **EvilNerdLord** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:36 am

How was Scoot RS to order from?....I found their web site and was thinking of a front rack but being in Vietnam I've been hesitant...

Guess I've been reading to many Asia bodges threads...

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:02 pm

djp4059 wrote:Thanks for your help. Ordered mine today. How long did it take to get them, since they come from Asia, and did you have to pay a duty on them. Amazing that the shipping costs are extremely high.

They arrived quite quickly (less than a week) and I paid no duty.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:06 pm

EvilNerdLord wrote:How was Scoot RS to order from?....I found their web site and was thinking of a front rack but being in Vietnam I've been hesitant...

Guess I've been reading to many Asia bodges threads...

The wheels appeared to be well made and stronger than OEM. They are holding air pressure.

Bodges are a hodgepodge of reworked parts and bad frames.

hackett · Post by **hackett** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:27 pm

Elder Scoot wrote:They make the bike ride better (subjective) and give me peace of mind.

I concur.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:25 pm

Someone on another thread said that they are lighter. Much lighter than the steel split wheels. and that 12 pounds + of rotational mass is eliminated, and made his ride alot faster and the difference was VERY noticeable while riding around.
Are the ones that you got the lighter ones?
Are they aluminum?
thanks

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:55 pm

jimmbomb wrote:Someone on another thread said that they are lighter. Much lighter than the steel split wheels. and that 12 pounds + of rotational mass is eliminated, and made his ride alot faster and the difference was VERY noticeable while riding around.
Are the ones that you got the lighter ones?
Are they aluminum?
thanks

The rims are steel. I didn't weigh them or the original wheels - but if they are lighter it could make a difference in performance. I can't challenge the 12 lb. number but that seems like a very large weight difference. Maybe the difference would be the split steel vs. rimless alloy.

I'm enjoying the way they look and ride and am satisfied with this swap.

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:39 pm

Mine have shipped today, will arrive on friday. Now I got to get some tires.

Yalzin · Post by **Yalzin** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:10 am

I just purchased the SIP tubeless wheels (though the tracking information isn't very helpful, as it says the shipping label has been created, and that's all...), but I'm super excited.

Apparently the box is 3.8 kgs (2.2lbs? that doesn't seem right...)

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:20 pm

Yalzin wrote:I just purchased the SIP tubeless wheels (though the tracking information isn't very helpful, as it says the shipping label has been created, and that's all...), but I'm super excited.

Apparently the box is 3.8 kgs (2.2lbs? that doesn't seem right...)

A kilogram weighs 2.2 pounds - so 3.8 kilograms would be 8.36 pounds. That sounds about right for alloy wheels.

Tipper · Post by **Tipper** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:35 pm

I went from standard steel rims to aluminium sip tubeless rims and felt no performance improvement.

Anything you do feel is more than likely in your head.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:49 pm

Tipper wrote:I went from standard steel rims to aluminium sip tubeless rims and felt no performance improvement.

Anything you do feel is more than likely in your head.

Lighter wheels reduce rotating weight and unsprung weight. In theory any weight reduction will increase acceleration all other things being equal. However, tests in cars that I've read about show quite minimal improvements when wheel weight is reduced.

Different tires however will result in more dramatic changes. I said that I felt (subjectively) that Michelin tires felt better than the OEM tires. So I agree with you in that respect.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:49 pm

Tipper wrote:I went from standard steel rims to aluminium sip tubeless rims and felt no performance improvement.

Anything you do feel is more than likely in your head.

Lighter wheels reduce rotating weight and unsprung weight. In theory any weight reduction will increase acceleration all other things being equal. However, tests in cars that I've read about show quite minimal improvements when wheel weight is reduced.

Different tires however will result in more dramatic changes. I said that I felt (subjectively) that Michelin tires felt better than the OEM tires. So I agree with you in that respect.

Yalzin · Post by **Yalzin** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:42 pm

Elder Scoot wrote:
Yalzin wrote:I just purchased the SIP tubeless wheels (though the tracking information isn't very helpful, as it says the shipping label has been created, and that's all...), but I'm super excited.

Apparently the box is 3.8 kgs (2.2lbs? that doesn't seem right...)

A kilogram weighs 2.2 pounds - so 3.8 kilograms would be 8.36 pounds. That sounds about right for alloy wheels.

Good call, I didn't math right

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:20 pm

Not sure if this applies to motorized vehicles, but you would think it would.
I know from riding a regular bike with pedals, that the tires on 10 speeds or
racing type bikes have very thin tires and are much easier to pedal then the
same type of bike with fatter tires. It takes more energy to move fatter tires
than thinner tires because of the resistance from the ground contact.

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:39 pm

Can you use "regular" tubeless tire plugs to seal up a nail or screw hole on these? If so, that would be a good addition to the tool bag as well as a bicycle tire CO2 inflation tool.

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:00 pm

Elder Scoot, ScootRS quoted you on their Facebook page regarding your posts on this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/scootrs

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:50 am

They have this video on there site on "How to mount a tire in only 45 seconds".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kiU7_m5JbA

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:26 am

fisher1 wrote:Can you use "regular" tubeless tire plugs to seal up a nail or screw hole on these? If so, that would be a good addition to the tool bag as well as a bicycle tire CO2 inflation tool.

Tire plugs work in a tubeless scooter tires the same way they do in automobile tires. Be sure you also carry an inflating device. A un-inflated plugged flat tire is still just a flat.

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:43 pm

My rims and tires both came in today. Cant wait to put them on.
For those who like to know, they weigh 4 lbs 2 oz. each.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:20 pm

djp4059 wrote:My rims and tires both came in today. Cant wait to put them on.
For those who like to know, they weigh 4 lbs 2 oz. each.

I told you ScooterRS is fast! Weigh your OEM wheels and tires so we can get some comparison. What tires did you buy and what color rims?

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Thu May 01, 2014 8:57 pm

I got the red rims and the Shinko SR550 whitewalls.

And I don't think anyone can mount these tires to the rims by hand.
I was going to get the Prima's from Scootersworks.com but they had a note
on their website that says that it won't fit on the rear of a Stella 4T

http://www.scooterworks.com/prima-white ... 2K0-F5ijpE

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:25 pm

I brought my rims and tires to a bike shop today and they couldn't get the tires onto the rims. They said either the tire or the rims were not made properly (most likely the rims are a tad to big). They said there was so much pressure on the tire that they thought it was going to shred the tire. I would think twice before ordering these rims.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:08 am

djp4059 wrote:I brought my rims and tires to a bike shop today and they couldn't get the tires onto the rims. They said either the tire or the rims were not made properly (most likely the rims are a tad to big). They said there was so much pressure on the tire that they thought it was going to shred the tire. I would think twice before ordering these rims.

That certainly sucks. The Michelins fit fine on my rims. Perhaps it is the tires?

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:24 am

Sweet looking red rims.. dont let them gouge them up wrestling with the tires

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed May 07, 2014 2:16 pm

djp4059 wrote:I brought my rims and tires to a bike shop today and they couldn't get the tires onto the rims. They said either the tire or the rims were not made properly (most likely the rims are a tad to big). They said there was so much pressure on the tire that they thought it was going to shred the tire. I would think twice before ordering these rims.

My mechanic used tire irons to do the mount manually. It was tough - but smaller tires can seem tougher to mount than larger motorcycle tires. Did your guys use a mounting machine? Did they actually have the proper equipment to mount a 10" tire?

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Wed May 07, 2014 11:14 pm

Well I guess I jumped the gun on blaming the rims (most likely the mechanics
fault). But I finally got them on by myself. The trick is to leave them in the trunk
of your car out in the hot sun, cause they slipped right on with just a little help
from a pry bar.

Here's a pick with the new hubcaps I purchased from Scooterwest.com.

Tomorrow I will most likely install them on the bike along with a new side kickstand that I also got from Scooterwest.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Thu May 08, 2014 1:45 am

djp4059 wrote:Well I guess I jumped the gun on blaming the rims (most likely the mechanics
fault). But I finally got them on by myself. The trick is to leave them in the trunk
of your car out in the hot sun, cause they slipped right on with just a little help
from a pry bar.

Here's a pick with the new hubcaps I purchased from Scooterwest.com.

Tomorrow I will most likely install them on the bike along with a new side kickstand that I also got from Scooterwest.

Great!!! They look terrific. The lesson learned is about getting a second opinion - in this case you supplied your own. Vietnam runs on scooters. It would be hard to believe they couldn't make a proper fitting wheel.

clayjo · Post by **clayjo** » Thu May 08, 2014 4:45 pm

love to see these red rims on the scooter. Please post you get them on...

djp4059 · Post by **djp4059** » Thu May 08, 2014 8:09 pm

Wheels are on and they do look good. Sidestand bracket needs to be modified to fit around the hack bracket though.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Fri May 09, 2014 2:35 am

Oh man...that is very sweet and red is faster too!

Yalzin · Post by **Yalzin** » Mon May 12, 2014 3:25 pm

So, after some issues with getting the tires mounted and other issues, I have finally gotten my new wheels put on!

Wheels:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/main/ ... r=81058100

Tires: http://www.bikebandit.com/vee-rubber-vr ... ooter-tire (Based on my dealer's recommendations)

So, it begins: DonnaStella gets a present in the mail:

What could it be?

Hm. These look pretty classy...

Wheels put on. Note the rounded hub instead of the star hub (which came off a 2T, fit on perfectly, no modification needed)

In the above picture, you can see the polished edge excellently on the rear tire.

---

For those curious about any difference it makes:

Particularly at higher speeds, the scooter felt MUCH more stable. It went from "Oh god I'm at 60mph if I don't hold on I'm going to die" to "Woah, am I really at 60mph? This is so smooth..."

Put more importantly, I collected some data regarding acceleration and speed, pre- and post- new wheels. While the data sample is small, it does provide some input for the "does it make a speed/accel difference?" question that seems to float around from time to time.

Ride 1 and 3 were the same route, as were 2 and 4:

Pre- new wheels rides 1 and 2:

Ride 1:
Average Accel: 7.0 m/s
Max speed: 75.60 km/h -OR- 47 mph

Ride 2:
Average Accel: 7.7 m/s
Max speed: 72.9 km/h -OR- 45 mph

---

Post- new wheels rides 3 and 4:

Ride 3:
Average Accel: 8.92 m/s
Max speed: 74.7 km/h -OR- 46.41 mph

Ride 4:
Average Accel: 8.90 m/s
Max speed: 80.10 km/h -OR- 49.77mph

So, an increase (slight? significant?) in acceleration. May be due to the new tires, may be due to the weight of the wheels... I'll let more knowledgeable people chime in for that one

Now to go find out why she is having motor issues...

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Snyderxploit · Post by **Snyderxploit** » Wed May 14, 2014 2:45 am

Yalzin, I have a question for you. What size rims did you get? I was looking to get them soon but need some hands on experiences and knowledge to which fit better. Getting the zips this weekend just need to know which one work better with the 4t with no issues. Your info will help. Thanks.

Yalzin · Post by **Yalzin** » Wed May 14, 2014 3:16 am

I went with the 2.10s (in the link above) and mounted 90/90 tires. There were no issues with fit balance or alignment on the scooter. If I did it again I'd probably go to the 2.50s, but these work.

Modern Buddy

Installed Tubeless Rims and Tires

Installed Tubeless Rims and Tires

Re: Installed Tubeless Rims and Tires