Anyone give unsolicited advice to new riders?

mhardgrove · Post by **mhardgrove** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:07 am

Long story short, in the fall I saw a cute little girl pull into the gas station with a cheapo chinesse scooter wearing zero safety equipment. She had huge cats eye glasses, scarf, dress, and cute platform shoes. She was fumbling with her seat attempting to get to the gastank. I saw she wasn't familiar with the scooter and I assisted her. I kindly explained that I also rode a scooter and suggested she really should wear riding gear. She replied that she can't look "cute" in riding gear and a helmet would mess up her hair. I didn't proceed to say anything further, as she's an adult, but she seemed extremly unsure of herself pulling away into a 45mph zone on her shitbox 50cc spewing smoke like mad with cars flying past!

Any of you give any sort of suggestions to people that are obviously novice riders? Discuss!

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 am

They are all drunk, you are invisible, have fun but be careful. R

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:08 pm

I would have retorted "your gonna die". She'll lay it down within a few days.

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:23 pm

Take a Training class! IL offers one for free! " have to pay 20$ to hold your spot and you get it back when your done."

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:16 pm

here it's become such a hipster thing to ride Ruckus or Metros with no gear.

I can't wait until the end of this summer when I can find a pile of cheap metros with scrapes!

My first year, I used to give people my opinion whether they wanted or not.

now, I just nod and hope they don't get hurt.

Statistically I ride a ton more than most of those folks, so I could just as easily be hurt.

A good friend and fellow rider said that it takes a few years to stop giving unsolicited advice or yelling "WEAR A HELMET YOU BOOB!" at kids on sportbikes in flip flops. He said "don't worry about those people, both you and the hospital can rejoice in cheap parts at the end of the season."

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:01 pm

If she was pretty enough I probably would have asked her for a date.... Hopefully before she went splat and looked like something from "Night of the living dead" from all the scrapes, broken bones, and mangled flesh thanks to not wearing gear and a big ol' pick up truck.....

evilbean42 · Post by **evilbean42** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:29 pm

I often tell people to take the Motorcycle Saftey course. In PA it's free too so it's not a hard sell. The course will teach anything I would have advised.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:43 pm

Yeah, but you have to wear long pants, boots, gloves, and a helmet in these courses. That would mess up the hair.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:49 pm

Generally hard to give advice to strangers about much of anything, let alone their safety failings as a motorcycle/scooter rider. Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:53 pm

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

If it's some random person on the street, I don't try; they'll just think I'm an asshole harshing their mellow, or a nutcase who thinks he's their dad. The best you can do for them is to set a good example.

If it's someone I sort of know, I'll tell them that I wear safety gear because it frees to me have more fun on the bike instead of worrying what'll happen if I get hit. (Which isn't 100% true, but at least puts a positive spin on the idea of safety.)

If it's a friend, I just tell them I'm not visiting them in the hospital or coming to their funeral if they don't at least wear a helmet and proper clothing. (Also not 100% true, but it makes the point.)

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:05 pm

TVB wrote:You can lead a horse to water

But it takes big, strong hands to drown 'em!

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:36 pm

TVB wrote:If it's some random person on the street, I don't try; they'll just think I'm an asshole harshing their mellow, or a nutcase who thinks he's their dad. The best you can do for them is to set a good example.

I know what you mean. Long story short, I saw a girl who was riding a scooter with her right leg tucked under her so that she was sitting on her shin with her right foot hanging out the left side of the scooter, sort of how I imagine a cat might ride a scooter. I really wanted to explain to her that if she had to make a sudden stop that she was setting herself up to take a nasty spill. But... I figured she would just tell me to mind my own business or worse. Hope she didn't get hurt too badly before she figured it out.

toot · Post by **toot** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:49 pm

This is why I am glad that in Cali 50CC and above you must get a m1 license. Don't get me wrong you can seriously get hurt on 49 and lower. But it does weed some out like that. For they are the types that need the class most.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:00 pm

There's really two parts to this: "you" trying to offer advice to someone who (1) doesn't know you and (2) thinks they know what they are doing. And "them" who (1) probably thinks they cannot get hurt on the scooter and (2) thinks they know what they are doing anyway.

Recipe for disaster. I may sometimes try to explain to someone why it's good to gear up but mostly you can see their faces just say "I'm FINE. I know what I'm doing, you clown".

I've reduced my input to "ride safe, God bless".

DoubleD · Post by **DoubleD** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:36 pm

I don't tell them anything. Like most people, they're rolling the dice. We all do it sometime somewhere, some way.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:18 pm

I refuse to join the ranks of the self appointed safety police.

walke2jd · Post by **walke2jd** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:55 pm

I feel like we all have different risk threshholds and that trying to offer advice to strangers is a bad idea. It would probably be just as unwanted as all the advice I get from cagers....

"That scooter is a deathtrap"

"You should really buy a car, those things are so dangerous"

Etc....

Danielm · Post by **Danielm** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:02 pm

I took the PA safety / motorcycle course, it was really helpful. I suggest to anyone even thinking of doing it to take it, it's free. We did have a number of people who drove to the class on their motorcycles, 600-1200ccs, who were scared of doing the maneuvers at the course (on a 125cc), makes me wonder how their trips back and forth went.

My own brother asked to try my scooter, I told him A) if you drop it you're paying to fix it as I don't have uninsured driver coverage and B) you're wearing the helmet, jacket, gloves, etc. He said, "pfft, I don't need that crap for a scooter" so I told him then he couldn't test it out, pretty simple.

DoubleD · Post by **DoubleD** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:52 pm

Danielm wrote: My own brother asked to try my scooter, I told him A) if you drop it you're paying to fix it as I don't have uninsured driver coverage and B) you're wearing the helmet, jacket, gloves, etc. He said, "pfft, I don't need that crap for a scooter" so I told him then he couldn't test it out, pretty simple.

Mistress Asphalt cares not what you ride, be it a full dress Harley or a Honda Metro. She only desires to be close as she works her magic on your body.
That said, your scooter, your rules. Otherwise, no one's business but the rider.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:13 pm

DoubleD wrote: That said, your scooter, your rules. Otherwise, no one's business but the rider.

Very well stated! Can I use that line?

DoubleD · Post by **DoubleD** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:15 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
DoubleD wrote: That said, your scooter, your rules. Otherwise, no one's business but the rider.
Very well stated! Can I use that line?

Of course.

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:53 pm

mhardgrove wrote:Long story short, in the fall I saw a cute little girl pull into the gas station with a cheapo chinesse scooter wearing zero safety equipment. She had huge cats eye glasses, scarf, dress, and cute platform shoes. She was fumbling with her seat attempting to get to the gastank. I saw she wasn't familiar with the scooter and I assisted her. I kindly explained that I also rode a scooter and suggested she really should wear riding gear. She replied that she can't look "cute" in riding gear and a helmet would mess up her hair. I didn't proceed to say anything further, as she's an adult, but she seemed extremly unsure of herself pulling away into a 45mph zone on her shitbox 50cc spewing smoke like mad with cars flying past!

Any of you give any sort of suggestions to people that are obviously novice riders? Discuss!

If it had been me and I had been on my scooter, and she looked to be over 21 years of age, I would have also assisted her and then suggested that we meet for coffee at the nearest coffee shop and talk scooters. For some reason I can't quite figure out, the olive green color of my 170i Italia seems to attract women. They go out of there way to ask me about the scoot and shower me with complimentary remarks. It seems to be the ultimate ice breaker and conversation starter. All this, of course, while sitting outside of my local Starbucks sipping coffee in the warm Arizona sunshine. Ice and snow. What is that?

Bill in Seattle but wintering in Arizona
'12 170i Italia (AZ scoot)

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:42 pm

I tell them to move to IL or PA so they can get the MSF for free. Two birds with one stone, you see?

jrstone · Post by **jrstone** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:33 pm

DoubleD wrote: Mistress Asphalt cares not what you ride... She only desires to be close as she works her magic on your body.

That made me cringe a little.

I wouldn't comment on gear, or lack thereof, to a stranger. If I know the person, they probably already know my opinion.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:19 am

jrstone wrote:
DoubleD wrote:Mistress Asphalt cares not what you ride... She only desires to be close as she works her magic on your body.
That made me cringe a little.

I wouldn't comment on gear, or lack thereof, to a stranger. If I know the person, they probably already know my opinion.

My version of this is a little harsher: The road doesn't care what you were riding before you land on it.

I don't give unsolicited advice. It's just not welcome. Instead — and I'm going to sound like a real dork here, sorry — I try to model good riding practices as much as possible. Other riders do notice. Not everyone, but some. And occasionally they ask.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:05 am

ericalm wrote:I don't give unsolicited advice. It's just not welcome. Instead — and I'm going to sound like a real dork here, sorry — I try to model good riding practices as much as possible. Other riders do notice. Not everyone, but some. And occasionally they ask.

You have this one exactly right. Lecturing others never works. Leading by example at least works with some riders some of the time. That is the best you will ever do.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:40 pm

skipper20 wrote:If it had been me and I had been on my scooter, and she looked to be over 21 years of age, I would have also assisted her and then suggested that we meet for coffee at the nearest coffee shop and talk scooters. For some reason I can't quite figure out, the olive green color of my 170i Italia seems to attract women. They go out of there way to ask me about the scoot and shower me with complimentary remarks. It seems to be the ultimate ice breaker and conversation starter. All this, of course, while sitting outside of my local Starbucks sipping coffee in the warm Arizona sunshine. Ice and snow. What is that?

Bill in Seattle but wintering in Arizona
'12 170i Italia (AZ scoot)

The Helix also attacts the ladies: the same kind of ladies I used to date, you know, "point and laugh".

In so far as offering unsolicited advice - absolutely never. Too much "attitude" nowadays. Too bad, because you can save yourself a lot of grief by listening to folks who've "been there, done that". Some of the best wrenching advice I've ever received has been from "old-timer" mechanics who knew the easy way to do things and how to do more with less.

WileE · Post by **WileE** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:28 pm

Tell her she's not going to look cute in the hospital or morgue.

As my dad always says, 'To each, their own.' They will have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I'll tell people my reasons for gearing up, but won't offer advice unless the subject comes up.

Tomato Bisque · Post by **Tomato Bisque** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:20 pm

Ok I'm going to be unpopular here but I don't always wear all the gear and there's times I wish I didn't have to wear the helmet! Guess laws are different in Cali. If I'm going to work I wear usually boots, gloves, jacket, helmet of course. That's a 5 mile ride max speed 45, LA traffic. It gets OLD wearing boots everyday so often I change into dress and heels at work. If I'm just running errands on my neighborhood side street, maybe 1 mile radius, I don't wear jacket or gloves- sorry! And when it's CRAZY hot, I wear shorts and tank top-- I confess! When at the beach and "suiting up" just doesn't fly.

I know the risks and there's times I'm willing to roll those dice.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:14 pm

Tomato Bisque wrote:Ok I'm going to be unpopular here but I don't always wear all the gear...

To be honest, if you are unpopular, so are most of the members here. Few wear everything, every time, all the time.

jrstone · Post by **jrstone** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:25 pm

I ALWAYS at least wear a helmet and long pants. But when the temps are in the 90's and 100's, I've been known to forget the gloves and jacket.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:17 pm

Oh, yeah, don't get me wrong. I am in no way "All the Gear, ALL the Time." We all make compromises. I don't wear boots much of the time but wear at least leather with ankle coverage… most of the time. And I wear jeans almost all of the time.

Helmet, yes. Gloves, always. I can't work without my hands.

Danielm · Post by **Danielm** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:24 pm

I don't ride very far and I'm usually wearing jeans anyway. I do always wear the helmet and gloves, I work with computers all day and the idea of hurting my hands and my face because I didn't want to be warm or spend 5 seconds putting it on isn't worth it. I almost always have my jacket on too, rarely not but only if I'm going a couple blocks and already have a couple top layers on.

With that said, I don't have riding pants and most of the time I just wear sneakers.

I'm the only person I see around town with anything more than a half helmet on, maybe I'm just paranoid but to me the risk isn't worth the wind blowing in my hair.

WileE · Post by **WileE** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:32 pm

I don't always gear up fully, either. At a minimum, helmet and gloves and that's if it's a 90+ day. Just feels weird without them. I'll wear a jacket up until about 85 or so.

That's one reason I don't lecture or offer advice. Don't want to be a hypocrite.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:36 pm

ericalm wrote:Helmet, yes. Gloves, always. I can't work without my hands.

Yup, my head and my hands are the two body parts I utterly depend on for my livelihood, so I never get on a two-wheeled vehicle (engine or not) without protection for them.

DoubleD · Post by **DoubleD** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:53 am

I too roll the dice as far as gear goes. The time a van turned in front of me I was wearing full gear from head to toe resulting in minimal road rash and shoulder surgery. Odd thing is the ride was a short 3 mile trip into town to pick up paperwork. I have no idea why I wore full gear but glad I did.

Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:04 pm

jrsjr wrote:
TVB wrote:If it's some random person on the street, I don't try; they'll just think I'm an asshole harshing their mellow, or a nutcase who thinks he's their dad. The best you can do for them is to set a good example.
I know what you mean. Long story short, I saw a girl who was riding a scooter with her right leg tucked under her so that she was sitting on her shin with her right foot hanging out the left side of the scooter, sort of how I imagine a cat might ride a scooter. I really wanted to explain to her that if she had to make a sudden stop that she was setting herself up to take a nasty spill. But... I figured she would just tell me to mind my own business or worse. Hope she didn't get hurt too badly before she figured it out.

These stories never have a happy ending, but this one (sort of) does. Yesterday I was driving in the same direction on the same stretch of of road and saw the cat rider again, except this time she was driving a slightly beat Hyundai Accent. TGFSF

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:23 pm

jrsjr wrote:These stories never have a happy ending, but this one (sort of) does. Yesterday I was driving in the same direction on the same stretch of of road and saw the cat rider again, except this time she was driving a slightly beat Hyundai Accent. TGFSF

My other vehicle is also a slightly beat Hyundai Accent.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:44 pm

jrsjr wrote:
jrsjr wrote:
TVB wrote:If it's some random person on the street, I don't try; they'll just think I'm an asshole harshing their mellow, or a nutcase who thinks he's their dad. The best you can do for them is to set a good example.
I know what you mean. Long story short, I saw a girl who was riding a scooter with her right leg tucked under her so that she was sitting on her shin with her right foot hanging out the left side of the scooter, sort of how I imagine a cat might ride a scooter. I really wanted to explain to her that if she had to make a sudden stop that she was setting herself up to take a nasty spill. But... I figured she would just tell me to mind my own business or worse. Hope she didn't get hurt too badly before she figured it out.
These stories never have a happy ending, but this one (sort of) does. Yesterday I was driving in the same direction on the same stretch of of road and saw the cat rider again, except this time she was driving a slightly beat Hyundai Accent. TGFSF

Was she wearing her seatbelt?

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:23 am

Syd wrote:
jrsjr wrote:
jrsjr wrote: I know what you mean. Long story short, I saw a girl who was riding a scooter with her right leg tucked under her so that she was sitting on her shin with her right foot hanging out the left side of the scooter, sort of how I imagine a cat might ride a scooter. I really wanted to explain to her that if she had to make a sudden stop that she was setting herself up to take a nasty spill. But... I figured she would just tell me to mind my own business or worse. Hope she didn't get hurt too badly before she figured it out.
These stories never have a happy ending, but this one (sort of) does. Yesterday I was driving in the same direction on the same stretch of of road and saw the cat rider again, except this time she was driving a slightly beat Hyundai Accent. TGFSF
Was she wearing her seatbelt?

She better have been wearing her seat belt!!!

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:38 am

Here in GA no helmet=big ticket. It is illegal to ride without one here. I suit up, canvas pants, boots, padded jacket, gloves, and helmet regardless of how far or how short the distance. I may be old but I aint stupid!!!

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:50 pm

I always wear a helmet, hi viz vest, and gloves. Even just toodling around the neighborhood or going to the store a short distance.

When it gets blazing hot I've been known to ride in tee shirts, shorts and capped sandals only as well. I'd rather take a chance then not ride in the hot, humid days as I don't do the heat very well at all.

Going out for a longer distance ride at higher speeds than just "toodling" I wear a mesh armored jacket and jeans. I am shopping for a pair of those over pants with armor that I can slip on over my shorts or jeans so that I can take them off when I stop to sight see, shop, whatever.

I rarely see motorcyclists around here even wearing a helmet. There is a bike store on my street and I see a lot of them up and down the street. I have been there to shop armored gear and helmets and there is hardly anything there to see. Evidently being safe is not a priority. I have a nephew who rides a motorcycle and wears absolutely no safety gear and thinks I am a nerd for riding a scooter and doing so (when I do). I hope he has good insurance.

Anyway, I stay away from talking to others about their choices. It is up to them.

As you can see I don't do it all the time myself, but since I've gone up to a bigger scooter with faster riding more often among cars than I did when I lived in the rural areas, I have geared up over the winter and plan to ride in it except for little "toodles" close by on my 49cc.

It's my choice and I am comfortable with it, knowing yes that I take a risk to ride across the street to Kroger on my C3 for groceries at 20mph.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:20 pm

Sadly insurance does not bring back the dead.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:50 pm

Wolfhound wrote:Sadly insurance does not bring back the dead.

No it won't, but telling people they need to wear gear is like telling them they should stop smoking or that they shouldn't eat so much because they are fat. It probably won't change their behavior and it will piss them off.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:59 pm

That is true, Syd. I don't bother to discuss it with them any more. Fortunately in our riding group we do not have any 'offenders'.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:06 pm

Almost universally true: The closer you get to a beach, the more casual the scootering attire.

I try to assume (right or wrong) that riders are adults capable of making their own decisions. The problem is that so many are horribly misinformed about the real-world risks involved.

None of us want some stranger telling us how to adjust our behavior, even if it's well intentioned. What, I shouldn't eat this amazing combination of red meat, dairy and fried pig because it's bad for me, bad for the environment, etc? Who the hell are you?!?

This is why we have a "no lecturing/soapbox" policy on MB when it comes to gear and helmets. There's almost no way to do it without coming across like a jerk. It's like when someone has already made up their mind to buy a Chinese scoot and they get piled on by people telling them to buy something that costs twice as much. All that does is alienate people.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:20 am

ericalm wrote:Almost universally true: The closer you get to a beach, the more casual the scootering attire.

I try to assume (right or wrong) that riders are adults capable of making their own decisions. The problem is that so many are horribly misinformed about the real-world risks involved.

None of us want some stranger telling us how to adjust our behavior, even if it's well intentioned. What, I shouldn't eat this amazing combination of red meat, dairy and fried pig because it's bad for me, bad for the environment, etc? Who the hell are you?!?

This is why we have a "no lecturing/soapbox" policy on MB when it comes to gear and helmets. There's almost no way to do it without coming across like a jerk. It's like when someone has already made up their mind to buy a Chinese scoot and they get piled on by people telling them to buy something that costs twice as much. All that does is alienate people.

I think the ''no lecturing'' policy is best. There's another board I quit going to as often because there's a lot of ''lecturing'' as soon as a noob comes on and enthusiastically introduces themselves and their new scooter. The vultures descend, babbling about ATGATT and the new posters usually don't hang around long. It really infuriates me to see this happen.

There, I feel better after venting about that!

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:31 pm

Since I started riding pretty much 'gear less' except for a helmet, the only advice I've ever given was, "ride safe, my friend"

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:40 pm

TVB wrote:
jrsjr wrote:These stories never have a happy ending, but this one (sort of) does. Yesterday I was driving in the same direction on the same stretch of of road and saw the cat rider again, except this time she was driving a slightly beat Hyundai Accent. TGFSF
My other vehicle is also a slightly beat Hyundai Accent.

As is mine.

(I would have gushed to the girl at the gas pumps about all the ADORBS gear that's out there. Because it is. If "cute" is your only excuse you have NO excuse)

Modern Buddy

Anyone give unsolicited advice to new riders?

Anyone give unsolicited advice to new riders?

Re: Anyone give unsolicited advice to new riders?

Re: Anyone give unsolicited advice to new riders?