Latest from Genuine's website on the Stella 4T

The original 2-stroke Genuine scooter and its 4-stroke manual and automatic offspring

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illnoise
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Post by illnoise »

EvilTweety wrote:The one thing missing from the bar analogy is that I have already paid for my beer...
That's a very good point, but on the other hand, we don't have your money*, so we can be sympathetic, but only to a point, we can't help you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3DYbE44OIE
"I believe there will be no charge for this two-four." ha. That has nothing to do with this, I'm just being silly



* Actually, I don't know if this has been brought up, but technically, I don't think Genuine has your money either, your dealer does. Sure, your dealer may have put down a deposit on their shipment of bikes, but I think they're technically/legally holding *your* deposit, not Genuine. For what that's worth.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
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jmer1234
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Post by jmer1234 »

Personally, I can't wait for the nay-sayers to start their new scooter company. Obviously they are experts at the nuances and minutia of international manufacturing and shipping as well as US importation laws. Plus, they must have their PR engines already revved, and ready to take off the line the instant they open their doors. I am going to hold off purchasing my Genuine scooter at this time and eagerly await their offering.

Waiting imaptiently... jmer1234

PS - I have seen a lot of conspiracy theories here stating that Genuine is trying to hoodwink the EPA. Their statement says nothing about the EPA, Customs is the entity with the issue at this moment.
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EvilTweety
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Post by EvilTweety »

BrooktownGeezer wrote:We're only talking about scooters here guys. Not life or death issues...
Right, so does anyone know if I can get a rear rack with a matching backrest? All that I have seen don't match the seats of the 4t's... the curtains gotta match the carpet... :wink:
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illnoise
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Post by illnoise »

jmer1234 wrote:PS - I have seen a lot of conspiracy theories here stating that Genuine is trying to hoodwink the EPA. Their statement says nothing about the EPA, Customs is the entity with the issue at this moment.
The original statement:

http://www.genuinescooters.com/feat/stexlla_news.html

Said it was the EPA that required additional testing. I think they use the terms interchangeably, since the EPA would presumably be working with/through Customs.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
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jmer1234
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Post by jmer1234 »

illnoise wrote:Said it was the EPA that required additional testing. I think they use the terms interchangeably, since the EPA would presumably be working with/through Customs.
Again you are making an assumption, which keeps causing this thread to spiral out of control. I am sure, since their initial statement from early June mentioned the EPA, if the EPA is the entity the has an issue at this point, Genuine would state that. Instead, they are stating that it is Customs at this point that has an issue. Everyone needs to stop assuming and work from facts.
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Post by Anachronism »

bigbropgo wrote: Well I speculate there was a brick of cocaine in all the glove boxes. I mean, who's gonna check the glove box right. Or maybe plutonium.
So you are saying both John Delorean and "Doc Brown" were involved in designing the 4T?

The more you think about this, the more sense it makes. WHY DIDN'T THEY TELL ME THE 4T's WOULD TRAVEL THROUGH TIME AND MAKE MY GUMS NUMB?
Valves are for wussies.
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Post by EvilTweety »

So when I finally do get my Stella, I have to travel about 300 miles to the dealer. I would love to ride it back, but I know that during the break-in period it is recommended to vary the speed, load and such. I don't have a truck or a trailer, but I do have a Honda Element. The rear opening is 3' 4" tall by about the same wide. I have heard a Buddy will fit in the back of an Element, does anyone know if a Stella will?
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Re: a health change of subject

Post by Anachronism »

Gary Sebben wrote: I would think in a case like that the EPA could just do a simple emissions test like any you would get at the DMV in states that require it. How much more testing needs to be done if all you care about it whats coming out of the tail pipe.
It is QUITE different than that. Manufacturers are not only required to meet certain emissions targets, they are also required to have certain mandatory emmissions related design requirements.

Virtually everything sold in the US with a internal combustion engine today has mandatory emission control devices.

It doesn't matter if the manufacturer can hit the emissions goals without this equipment- if it is required to be on the bike, it must be there.

Further, it must be there in the same fashion as what was approved. If some piece of the bike changed that could possibly impact emissions, then they can be expected to have a problem with it. It doesn't matter if the bike still blows clean, if they approved it with one part, and it has a different part or a different design, they must then verify that it blows as clean or cleaner before approving, while also verifying that the part in question does its particular job as well or better than the original part.

LML has been NOTORIOUS for substituting parts without warning. The front brake, shocks, and tires have all changed midyear with no warning on previous models. Olive Stella's were advertised as getting whitewall tires, but in 2009 later runs showed up with the standard tires, no explanation. Stella shocks used to be quality aftermarket pieces (I forget the manufacturer) but were switched without warning to be knockoffs a few years ago.

Assuming speculation that the holdup is related to emissions issues, I would not be surprised to find that this is a result of LML abruptly deciding to throw other parts onto the bike.
Valves are for wussies.
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Post by Anachronism »

EvilTweety wrote:So when I finally do get my Stella, I have to travel about 300 miles to the dealer. I would love to ride it back, but I know that during the break-in period it is recommended to vary the speed, load and such. I don't have a truck or a trailer, but I do have a Honda Element. The rear opening is 3' 4" tall by about the same wide. I have heard a Buddy will fit in the back of an Element, does anyone know if a Stella will?
I doubt it. Further, how are you going to get it into the hatch? A Stella is significantly heavier than a buddy as well.

I would rent a trailer.
Valves are for wussies.
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Post by ericalm »

EvilTweety wrote:So when I finally do get my Stella, I have to travel about 300 miles to the dealer. I would love to ride it back, but I know that during the break-in period it is recommended to vary the speed, load and such. I don't have a truck or a trailer, but I do have a Honda Element. The rear opening is 3' 4" tall by about the same wide. I have heard a Buddy will fit in the back of an Element, does anyone know if a Stella will?
I could try and measure it or take pics of it next to the Buddy…

But, yeah, a trailer is probably best. I think you can get a U-Haul motorcycle trailer for a day for under $50.

Either way, you'll need some good tie-downs.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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Post by siobhan »

EvilTweety wrote:So when I finally do get my Stella, I have to travel about 300 miles to the dealer. I would love to ride it back, but I know that during the break-in period it is recommended to vary the speed, load and such. I don't have a truck or a trailer, but I do have a Honda Element. The rear opening is 3' 4" tall by about the same wide. I have heard a Buddy will fit in the back of an Element, does anyone know if a Stella will?
I got a Vespa P in the back of a first generation Quest minivan. I got same Vespa into a Volvo 240 wagon and it was fine, but some folks freak out if a bike is on its side.

Why not ride it home? Where's your sense of adventure?! You'd entertain all of us with tales of the trek back home.

Here's some reading on how to transport scoots and bikes in a Honda Element.

And a pic:

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Post by Silver Streak »

EvilTweety wrote:So when I finally do get my Stella, I have to travel about 300 miles to the dealer. I would love to ride it back, but I know that during the break-in period it is recommended to vary the speed, load and such. I don't have a truck or a trailer, but I do have a Honda Element. The rear opening is 3' 4" tall by about the same wide. I have heard a Buddy will fit in the back of an Element, does anyone know if a Stella will?
Ride it home on back roads. It would be an easy one-day journey, probably about 8 hours of riding. And believe me, you will be varying the speed and load a lot more than you may think without even trying. I've done over 5000 miles of touring so far this summer on my Vespa LX, including a trip from Maryland to Colorado and back (averaging about 330 miles per day), and the speeds and engine loading were all over the map.

That way, you can get half your break-in out of the way in a hurry!
Dave

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Post by Lovelandstella »

siobhan wrote:
EvilTweety wrote:So when I finally do get my Stella, I have to travel about 300 miles to the dealer....
...Why not ride it home? Where's your sense of adventure?! You'd entertain all of us with tales of the trek back home...
yeah that's what I am doing (though it's not as far)
I hear you need to take a 15 minute break every hour
and the debate is steady speeds vs stop and go- I say stop and go per Genuines website
http://www.genuinescooters.com/genuine_faqs.html#Q19
and do the stop and go to get a nice, squared off edge on the rings.

now if you can drive through a city- I say go for it. if not... then (If you do this- your choice of course) I guess you could pretentd there are blocks when there are none and stop every 100 yards or so! then start again! :lol: it'd be annoying but i'm going to do it!
my trip will be city/rural/city and in the rural part I will be pulling over like that and stopping and probably letting traffic pass me- the road is not a speedy road (35mph) but I imagine folks will still want to pass me.
this way I help them and my my engine at the same time.
it will take a while though.
bring a picnic lunch and try to meet a friend!

or have a significant other follow you with flashers on and a poster in their back window that reads "blind scooterist"- that'll keep you safe! 8)
~Lovelandstella
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Post by Silver Streak »

You don't need city riding to break it in properly. The most important thing is not to ride at a constant rpm for a long time. Just backing way off the throttle momentarily every now and then creates vacuum in the combustion chamber that sucks oil up onto the cylinder walls where you want it. Loading the engine for short periods on hills or reasonably hard acceleration helps seat the rings.

The worst thing would be to just sit at 50 mph+ and never vary the throttle.
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Post by EvilTweety »

It is beautiful country to ride through... and would make a great time compressed video! But it is Texas, in the summer... now where did I put my asbestos riding gear...
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Post by Anachronism »

Silver Streak wrote:You don't need city riding to break it in properly. The most important thing is not to ride at a constant rpm for a long time. Just backing way off the throttle momentarily every now and then creates vacuum in the combustion chamber that sucks oil up onto the cylinder walls where you want it. Loading the engine for short periods on hills or reasonably hard acceleration helps seat the rings.

The worst thing would be to just sit at 50 mph+ and never vary the throttle.
You also want to control heat by running it slower and stopping and letting the engine cool regularly in your rides during the break in.

I would rather break in a bike around town rather than try to do it on a 300 mile ride back from a dealer.
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Post by illnoise »

Silver Streak wrote:The most important thing is not to ride at a constant rpm for a long time.
+1, and you especially want to avoid WFO (top revs), especially for extended periods. Note that means top revs in each gear, riding WFO in 3rd is bad, riding on low revs in 4th is OK. But varying it is the main thing. I agree that might be kinda tricky on a long ride on boring roads, but it could be done.

Probably wouldn't want to do a huge long ride on a very hot day, though, the point of all that is to not overheat it, so the engine doesn't seize before the piston and cylinder become best friends.

Bb.
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Post by illnoise »

jmer1234 wrote:Again you are making an assumption, which keeps causing this thread to spiral out of control.
Fair enough, but it's a fairly well-informed assumption, in that the original letter said it was an EPA issue, and the second letter was more of a 'note' that made no mention of a new issue, nor did it state that the EPA issue was resolved. I'm by no means an import/export expert, but I've been following scooter importation for a while, and another professed expert in this thread said these agencies do, in fact work together.

Sure, I could be wrong, but I'm not just wildly making stuff up here.

Bb.
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Post by jmer1234 »

illnoise wrote:
jmer1234 wrote:Again you are making an assumption, which keeps causing this thread to spiral out of control.
Fair enough, but it's a fairly well-informed assumption, in that the original letter said it was an EPA issue, and the second letter was more of a 'note' that made no mention of a new issue, nor did it state that the EPA issue was resolved. I'm by no means an import/export expert, but I've been following scooter importation for a while, and another professed expert in this thread said these agencies do, in fact work together.

Sure, I could be wrong, but I'm not just wildly making stuff up here.

Bb.
Ok, the original letter actually said there were 2 pending inspections and did not indicate that there was an issue with either. First, the scooters were "staged for review by United States Customs (Homeland Security) for clearance" with no mention that they had passed that review yet. Then the EPA stepped in and wanted their own full inspection of the scooters and told Genuine (I paraphrase) "Don't call us, we'll call you". Again, no indication of an issue, just a review. They were pretty clear on these facts, which is why I am simply trying to stop everyone from reading too much into the admittedly limited communication from Genuine and assume that they have been working in the shadows and trying to pull a fast one. When Genuine came out and said there was a problem with Customs, I (forgive me) assume it is with the Customs inspection, not the EPA inspection. It can be as simple as a missing rubber stamp on some piece of paperwork that has to be sent to India, stamped and sent back.
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Post by BrooktownGeezer »

This thread should be renamed The Twilight Zone.....
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Post by Lovelandstella »

BrooktownGeezer wrote:This thread should be renamed The Twilight Zone.....
+1
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Post by stiffi »

EvilTweety wrote:So when I finally do get my Stella, I have to travel about 300 miles to the dealer. I would love to ride it back, but I know that during the break-in period it is recommended to vary the speed, load and such. I don't have a truck or a trailer, but I do have a Honda Element. The rear opening is 3' 4" tall by about the same wide. I have heard a Buddy will fit in the back of an Element, does anyone know if a Stella will?
Take measurements, but I would think the Element would be PERFECT to fit the Stella. When I bought my Vino I crammed it at an angle into my Saturn Outlook through the tiny hatch. I kept saying to my wife "if only we had bought that Honda Element"

The fact that the seats fold away and you have the entire Top to bottom to slide the Stella in should make for an easy fit.

Again, measure but I think you should be fine.
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Post by illnoise »

Search the forum for "Honda Element," this has come up before, and somewhere there's a comparison of the Stella vs. Buddy dimensions. IIRC, they're not terribly different. Modern scooters are bigger than they look.

You'd need to remove the mirrors for sure, though.

BRyan
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Post by EvilTweety »

Thanks for the advice. Now if there were only someone that actually had a Stella 4t that could provide its dimensions... hmmm.... HELLOOO Eric!

PS Any chance you could upload some pics of your 4t as well?
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Post by Rippinyarn »

I'd say that the Stella 4t is within a 1/2" of the 2t, and is more than likely the same exact size where it matters. Hence, it will fit fine in the Element. You may have to put the front wheel in between the seats, but it will fit fine.

Many Rovers have Elements, and they often take two scoots to rallies in their Elements. And yes, remove mirrors and stand by to let a bit of air out of the tires if you need a little shorter scoot. Now, if that 4t would only get here :P
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