Which is faster? Blackjack or Stella?

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:31 am

Stock? Blackjack. In stock form, the Stella is capable of (give or take) 55 - 60. The Blackjack (according to the speedometer) around 70.

--Keys

JSharpPhoto · Post by **JSharpPhoto** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:42 pm

i would disagree. a properly tuned carb on a stock stella should produce 65-70mph, as long as it was broken in properly. I have a 1974 150 Sprint Veloce, and even I can beat black jacks. And I only have 3 transfer ports, where a stella has 5. Stock vs. Stock, that black jack will be choking on blue smoke all day long.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:26 pm

JSharpPhoto wrote:i would disagree. a properly tuned carb on a stock stella should produce 65-70mph, as long as it was broken in properly. I have a 1974 150 Sprint Veloce, and even I can beat black jacks. And I only have 3 transfer ports, where a stella has 5. Stock vs. Stock, that black jack will be choking on blue smoke all day long.

Mmm, I'd disagree. With some tuning the Stella is a bit faster, but stock for stock the Blackjack is faster. Heck, stock the 125's are faster.

Now tuned, a Stella is a scarry beast. I rode Vespa Portland's test mule Stella last week thats got a 177cc kit, a 26mm carb, and a Sito+ pipe, and it was SCARY fast. It was pulling the front wheel up between every shift.

JSharpPhoto · Post by **JSharpPhoto** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:42 pm

then my 35 year old sprint v must be faster than a new stella. i'll try and race on this weekend, and report back.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:45 pm

JSharpPhoto wrote:then my 35 year old sprint v must be faster than a new stella. i'll try and race on this weekend, and report back.

I'd be interested in knowing that. The Stella really wakes up with some very minor tuning, but I didn't find it that fast totally stock.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:17 pm

Stock... the Jack all the way, both modified...who knows!

Kaos...you need to take my HEAVILY modified 67 GT for a spin..it is stupid fast!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:19 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:Stock... the Jack all the way, both modified...who knows!

Kaos...you need to take my HEAVILY modified 67 GT for a spin..it is stupid fast!

Ohh, I'd love that. Too bad you're all the way on the other side of the country

I've been JONSING bad over a super nice 78 P125 cutdown that a guy I know is selling. I need me another 2-stroke

alienmeatsack · Post by **alienmeatsack** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:15 pm

Stock Stella is slower. Broken in, they do 52mph indicated approx. They are slow on the uptake too. But man they are fun to ride. With a Stella, it ain't about getting there fast, it's about getting there with style.

Anything beyond adjusting the idle and mix screw means the Stella is no longer stock. And there is just no way a stock Stella is faster than a Blackjack.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:40 pm

Hmm. I would think the benefit of 2 stroke power and less drivetrain losses through the direct drive manual would give the stella the edge.

I'm considering (probably not seriously) buying either a Stella or a blackjack.

Stellas are dead sexy, and Sportique is selling them for $3,000 OTD right now. Blackjack looks pretty cool too.

Then again, I'm probably going to stick with what I have until at least the pipe comes in (Scooterworks- you there?). Right now I'm topping out at 55 on my little buddy, I expect the pipe and some tuning to get that past 60.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:08 pm

They are really two completley different scooters. I think they are both great so it depends on what you want and what you are going to use it for

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:35 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:They are really two completley different scooters. I think they are both great so it depends on what you want and what you are going to use it for

Totally. They've both got ups and downs. And can both be really quick with a little bit of work.

I took the Buddy over the Stella because I was a bit more familiar with 4-strokes. Other than that it would have been the Stella. Now that I've played with 2-strokes more, A Stella or other older shifty will be in my stable as soon as I drum up some cash

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:53 pm

2 strokes rule. They are ridiculous simple to work on and make great power. That is a big reason i chose the buddy 50 over the weaksauce 4 stroke 50's.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:24 pm

Yay for two-strokes!!

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:19 pm

I learned 2 strokes running standup jet skis for years. Hot rodding a typical two stroke is a breeze compared to 4 strokers. No cam and no valves FTW!

I just about dumped my pants the first time I got on my 750 SX after a pipe, dual carbs, milled head, and some other minor tweaks. About 60/70% more power with EASY botl ons.

Plugging in the 70CC kit on my buddy was even easier. Two bolts for the exhaust, four bolts to pull it all out, pliers for the C clips, installation is reverse of removal.

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:13 am

I think I have this correct:

2T 50cc scoot = more power and higher top speed vs 4T

2T 150cc scoot = less power and slower top speed vs 4T

At least that's what I've read numerous times.Do you agree?

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:16 am

i think the big thing slowing a stock stella down is smog equipment that dam cat in the pipe hurts big time even my zuma benifited big time from a not cat pipe and i belive they used a smaller carb or its jetted fairly lean

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:25 am

jmkjr72 wrote:i think the big thing slowing a stock stella down is smog equipment that dam cat in the pipe hurts big time even my zuma benifited big time from a not cat pipe and i belive they used a smaller carb or its jetted fairly lean

Exactly. I've seen a wicked fast smallframe (Scoot Richmond's shop bike).

The only other limitation is the gearing (which they make different gear trees for them).

Other than that, there's the point of maintaining a high speed. 2T's shouldn't be kept at high RPM's for long periods of time, whereas the 4T is a lot better suited towards longer stints at high RPM's.

JSharpPhoto · Post by **JSharpPhoto** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:54 am

BuddyLicious wrote:I think I have this correct:

2T 50cc scoot = more power and higher top speed vs 4T

2T 150cc scoot = less power and slower top speed vs 4T

At least that's what I've read numerous times.Do you agree?

technically no. you're correct to be confused. the problem is, we're comparing the ONLY 150 2T scooter on the market, bone stock, to a souped up 150 4T racer. I don't really think you can call ANY blackjack "stock". if you were to compare a stock stella to a regular buddy 150, or a vespa LX 150 or any other import 150, the stella would walk away. so, that being said, in 99% of scooters, 2T has more power over the entire powerband, than a 4T. The blackjack is a freak of nature, and shouldn't be considered "the norm" in any manner. I'm sure even blackjack owners would agree with that.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:22 am

JSharpPhoto wrote:
BuddyLicious wrote:I think I have this correct:

2T 50cc scoot = more power and higher top speed vs 4T

2T 150cc scoot = less power and slower top speed vs 4T

At least that's what I've read numerous times.Do you agree?
technically no. you're correct to be confused. the problem is, we're comparing the ONLY 150 2T scooter on the market, bone stock, to a souped up 150 4T racer. I don't really think you can call ANY blackjack "stock". if you were to compare a stock stella to a regular buddy 150, or a vespa LX 150 or any other import 150, the stella would walk away. so, that being said, in 99% of scooters, 2T has more power over the entire powerband, than a 4T. The blackjack is a freak of nature, and shouldn't be considered "the norm" in any manner. I'm sure even blackjack owners would agree with that.

When I bought my (then stock) 125, it was quite a bit faster than the Stella. The Stella topped out around 55, while the Buddy would do 65+.

That being said, the smog equipment is KILLING the Stella. Remove it and its faster than anything but the Blackjack stock. Carb and pipe it and its faster than just about anything.

The other big difference is that 4T's can usually reach higher top speeds, while a 2T is quicker.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:58 am

Shouldn't we also consider that the Stella is quite a bit heftier than the buddy? Slap a Stella engine in a buddy and watch it fly!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:00 am

laxer wrote:Shouldn't we also consider that the Stella is quite a bit heftier than the buddy? Slap a Stella engine in a buddy and watch it fly!

Lol, that'd be a beast! Like the Vespa P-750 thats kicking around on the net

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:17 am

Did I miss something? last I've checked the only difference to the power train that the BJ has from a regular 150 Buddy is the option of the Prima pipe. Everything else from all accounts, is the same as the stock Buddy 150. (Suspension and seat not included).

Stock vs Stock, the BJ wins. Tuned in potential... depends on how far the tuner is willing to go. If you can effect the gearing the Stella would be a beast, properly tuned. Same could be said for the Buddy. Kinda makes it all speculative, doesn't it?

Dan Buddy · Post by **Dan Buddy** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:24 pm

We have a stock 07 Stella and 06 Buddy. Stella will get up to about 59, Buddy will do about 68 (with me on them). I know the speedos are a bit off but riding together on the back roads she will slowly pull away from me on nice long runs.