The Blackjack... One Sic Ride!

[scooterbill]

OK... I rarely chime in here but we ( finally ) received the new Buddy Blackjack in our store and this an awesome and a well received ride. Finally... a scooter and package that performs and looks the part. You can whine all you want about smudges and scratches on flat black paint but this has the "Ride it like you stole it" look and feel. I can't wait to throw one in a curve and see if I make it and if I don't... tough shi* because it wants you to try. Good luck finding one of these when your ready!

[jarelj]

Yeah, the Blackjack is SWEET! The ride quality for "casual" riding is good, but when you wick it up to "sport" riding it really shows the value of the upgraded NCY suspension components - no wallowing in hard cornering, and the brakes are much stronger. And it looks pretty bad @$$ too with the flat black paint!

[mattgordon]

OK... I rarely chime in here but we ( finally ) received the new Buddy Blackjack in our store and this an awesome and a well received ride. Finally... a scooter and package that performs and looks the part. You can whine all you want about smudges and scratches on flat black paint but this has the "Ride it like you stole it" look and feel. I can't wait to throw one in a curve and see if I make it and if I don't... tough shi* because it wants you to try. Good luck finding one of these when your ready!

+1.
Love mine....old skool attitude, new skool reliability and performance!

[ericalm]

I'm hoping to get over my cold and go test ride one this week.

[armacham]

the brakes are much stronger.

this amuses me because when I took my motorcycle license exam i already stopped way short of the measuring lines for the emergency brake and swerve tests

[broke]

the brakes are much stronger.

this amuses me because when I took my motorcycle license exam i already stopped way short of the measuring lines for the emergency brake and swerve tests

And I did a minor stoppie on my test (without laying it down!) The examiner said "yeah, that was fast enough."

[r0sa]

this amuses me because when I took my motorcycle license exam i already stopped way short of the measuring lines for the emergency brake and swerve tests

so did i! that was only because the instructor was standing right at the line, didn't want to run him over, but he insisted i try again and i was so close to hitting him..he just chuckled

[Kaos]

the brakes are much stronger.

this amuses me because when I took my motorcycle license exam i already stopped way short of the measuring lines for the emergency brake and swerve tests

And I did a minor stoppie on my test (without laying it down!) The examiner said "yeah, that was fast enough."

Hah, I did that my first time, and the examiner made me do it again. He said there was no way I was up to the required speed and stopped in 4 ft When I stopped again in less than 5 feet from a *FASTER* speed, he said that he guessed that was good enough.

[ScooterTrash]

this amuses me because when I took my motorcycle license exam i already stopped way short of the measuring lines for the emergency brake and swerve tests

And I did a minor stoppie on my test (without laying it down!) The examiner said "yeah, that was fast enough."

Hah, I did that my first time, and the examiner made me do it again. He said there was no way I was up to the required speed and stopped in 4 ft When I stopped again in less than 5 feet from a *FASTER* speed, he said that he guessed that was good enough.

Same thing happened to me

For the record the braking isn't any different, it's the same caliper and pad. You would have to get them HOT to notice a difference as the bigger rotor will dissipate heat faster.

[djelliott]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

Dustin

[Kaos]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

Dustin

Nope, you get a pipe and different clutch springs from what my dealer tells me.

[Angela]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

Dustin

Its "murdered" out. That flat black is smooth. The seat is awesome and the shocks rule.

I really like it. It complements my pink Buddy.

[djelliott]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

Dustin

Nope, you get a pipe and different clutch springs from what my dealer tells me.

I looked around and saw no mention of the clutch spring. Hmmmmm? Let me check with my dealer.......Calling......calling........OK, they said no spring. Did your dealer maybe put one in himself?

Dustin

[djelliott]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

Dustin

Its "murdered" out. That flat black is smooth. The seat is awesome and the shocks rule.

I really like it. It complements my pink Buddy.

Don't get me wrong, I love the look and the suspension rules ( I outta know, I bought the same suspension for my buddy ). Seriously, if everything it has is something you want in the future buy the Black Jack, because compared to buying the stuff separately, it's a wicked deal.

[Angela]

I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to talk Prima pipe on the hog.

[djelliott]

I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to talk Prima pipe on the hog.

DO IT! You will thank yourself and your buddy will thank you too. I can't imagine being without my Prima pipe.

[Kaos]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

Dustin

Nope, you get a pipe and different clutch springs from what my dealer tells me.

I looked around and saw no mention of the clutch spring. Hmmmmm? Let me check with my dealer.......Calling......calling........OK, they said no spring. Did your dealer maybe put one in himself?

Dustin

Could be. I think he's trying to cheat for our race

[djelliott]

Nope, you get a pipe and different clutch springs from what my dealer tells me.

I looked around and saw no mention of the clutch spring. Hmmmmm? Let me check with my dealer.......Calling......calling........OK, they said no spring. Did your dealer maybe put one in himself?

Dustin

Could be. I think he's trying to cheat for our race

He may have to cheat if he wants to win You've got Voodoo inside! Oh, I gotta be cool like you and list my mods in my sig

[Angela]

I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to talk Prima pipe on the hog.

DO IT! You will thank yourself and your buddy will thank you too. I can't imagine being without my Prima pipe.

Really...you got me sold.

I am sending you a PM

[Lookin' To Scoot]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

You said it yourself, besides the pipe you also get an NCY fork, NCY adjustable rear shock, NCY big brake kit and a different seat. A BlackJack list for $3,499 and the international series for $3,199. You could buy the upgrades and after selling your old parts you'd still be out over $300, even without the labor. I'd go so far as to guess if you took a base 125 and added those upgrades you be at more than $3,500 and you'd still have a 125. Maybe the BlackJack isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it's hard to argue with the upgrades for only $300. Performance is more than the horsepower you get from the pipe, it's the handling and braking that make the BlackJack a more balanced/higher performing machine. A lot more than "purely marketing" in my book.

[Lostmycage]

I think he's saying that engine performance is mostly hype. It's a great deal if you want all those parts in the future. If I didn't have a Blur and were in the market for a new scoot, the BJ would be right up at the top of my list.

[djelliott]

I think he's saying that engine performance is mostly hype. It's a great deal if you want all those parts in the future. If I didn't have a Blur and were in the market for a new scoot, the BJ would be right up at the top of my list.

Yes, exactly.

Also to consider. $3499 is the MSRP, now add dealer assembly, tax, and title fees and you're walking out the door for about 4k. But like lostmycage said, if I were going to buy a new scooter right now it would be a Black Jack. And then I'd mod the hell out of it

[Lookin' To Scoot]

I think he's saying that engine performance is mostly hype. It's a great deal if you want all those parts in the future. If I didn't have a Blur and were in the market for a new scoot, the BJ would be right up at the top of my list.

Fair enough. Especially on carburated engines like the Buddy, performance improvements/claims can be difficult to quantify/duplicate. But even if there is little performance gain, the Prima pipe at least sounds faster, and definitely looks faster. I still contend that there is more to performance than just the engine side of the equation, and if you like the look of the BJ, it's a hell of a deal for the upgrades you get for a relatively small increase in price.

I'm in the market for a scoot for my wife, and while I've pretty much decided on the Buddy, which model to get is a tough call. I'm leaning toward the 125 because I think it's a great machine at that price and I think it would suit her purpose just fine. I'm less inclined to spend $500 more on an International model for what is essentially a larger engine (and two tone body panels). But if I were, I don't think I'd have any trouble talking myself into another $300 for the BJ. Especially since it would be a nice match for the Harley Iron 883 I have my eye on. But then, with taxes we're closing in on almost a grand more than the 125.

After typing that paragraph, I'm wondering if it's the International series that is marketing hype.

.02

[Lookin' To Scoot]

Yes, exactly.

Also to consider. $3499 is the MSRP, now add dealer assembly, tax, and title fees and you're walking out the door for about 4k. But like lostmycage said, if I were going to buy a new scooter right now it would be a Black Jack. And then I'd mod the hell out of it

Agreed.

Here are the out the door prices (scoot, prep, shipping, registration and sales taxes) I was given at Scoot Over in Tucson:

Buddy 125: $3,275
International: $3,825
BlackJack: $4,150

Like I said before, there is a fair jump from the 125 to the 150, but once you're at $3825, what's another $325 for what in my opinion are some pretty sweet upgrades on the BJ?

[djelliott]

I think he's saying that engine performance is mostly hype. It's a great deal if you want all those parts in the future. If I didn't have a Blur and were in the market for a new scoot, the BJ would be right up at the top of my list.

Fair enough. Especially on carburated engines like the Buddy, performance improvements/claims can be difficult to quantify/duplicate. But even if there is little performance gain, the Prima pipe at least sounds faster, and definitely looks faster. I still contend that there is more to performance than just the engine side of the equation, and if you like the look of the BJ, it's a hell of a deal for the upgrades you get for a relatively small increase in price.

I'm in the market for a scoot for my wife, and while I've pretty much decided on the Buddy, which model to get is a tough call. I'm leaning toward the 125 because I think it's a great machine at that price and I think it would suit her purpose just fine. I'm less inclined to spend $500 more on an International model for what is essentially a larger engine (and two tone body panels). But if I were, I don't think I'd have any trouble talking myself into another $300 for the BJ. Especially since it would be a nice match for the Harley Iron 883 I have my eye on. But then, with taxes we're closing in on almost a grand more than the 125.

After typing that paragraph, I'm wondering if it's the International series that is marketing hype.

.02

When I was buying mine I was told buy the shop if moneys not an option and you really like the color go for the international, but otherwise I'd be just as happy with the 125. And I am. I've ridden both and really only notice a bit more meat in the upper mid range on the 150. It also produces a slightly lower note with a Prima on it. I was hesitant to produce the extra cash for the International but I sure would for the extra goods you get on the BJ

[oryx]

Here are the out the door prices (scoot, prep, shipping, registration and sales taxes) I was given at Scoot Over in Tucson:

Buddy 125: $3,275
International: $3,825
BlackJack: $4,150

Like I said before, there is a fair jump from the 125 to the 150, but once you're at $3825, what's another $325 for what in my opinion are some pretty sweet upgrades on the BJ?

Dang, i got a pretty good deal on my BJ then. Around $3650 OTD incl tax/title. Guess goes to show you that where you are in the country makes a big difference in price.

[gearhead]

yes it is 1 sick ridee!!!

[Lostmycage]

OK, here it is straight, no marketing hype:

The Buddy 125 is a great scooter that will get better gas mileage than the 150. If you just want a reliable scoot, this is a SOLID choice.

The Internationals offer 25 extra CC's and unique styling. The frame, suspension, brakes and electrics... they're all exactly the same. This is the model I chose when I bought new. The color scheme and the extra 25cc's were worth the extra $400ish (to me).

The Blackjack is a different beast. It's an international with upgraded suspension and an *included* Prima Pipe. If you're going for the Internationals and the look of them doesn't appeal to you, the extra $350 is a no brainer. Test ride an International then a Blackjack. Take them on a real road (you know, the kind with potholes and the like). You'll notice the difference!

Don't like the look of the Blackjack? Paint it. Don't like the look of the Internationals? Paint it. Painting the Buddy is a lazy afternoon's work at most.

<a href="topic8869.html#109522">Example of how plastic specific paint holds up after 1k miles and not a single washing.... </a>

The 150cc with the Prima is just plain FUN. It hauls! But don't be fooled into thinking that the 125cc is crippled. Kaos has proven that the 125cc can be a beast in it's own right. The 150 is faster stock, no one will argue that (except Kaos, and his point is how it's broken in... ask him about it. I do think it makes a difference). The 125cc has a secret weapon: the mini stroker crankshaft. It comes with a 60mm stock crankshaft compared to the 150's 58.7. Sure, it's only 1.3mm, but that makes a difference. It makes torque. Guess what drives the CVT efficiently. Torque.

What that all equates to is this. If you just want a bike to buy and ride, pick your favorite. There's a plethora of reasons to choose one over the other. Genuine's gonna market each one to specific types of buyers. Of course there's market hype! That's their game! But they sell a solid bike and they guarantee it with a warranty.

If you want a bike to mod, pick your poison from the above.

The 125cc starts with a good base (the mini-stroker crank) and it's possible to increase the displacement... with some diligence and research. (Sorry, Kaos... Can't confirm the 125cc kit until someone's tried it.) The difficulty here is that the 125cc uses a 13mm wrist pin instead of the universally available 15mm wrist pin. BUT there's places that sell the kits that'll fit (they come with a 15mm WP piston) and I've found a place that sells a 13mm WP piston. It's completely possible to increase the displacement... in theory. This is as yet untested.

The 150 is your standard GY6 engine. There's tons of kits out there (buy at your own risk! You must trust your distributor on the quality of the parts and where they come from). The 150cc has the 15mm wrist pin and *should* work with a majority of the big bore kits out there. Again, to my knowledge, there's no one who's put one on these yet that I'm aware of.

The BJ, has the 150cc engine, but if you're not buying it for the looks, you should be buying it for the suspension upgrades and the included Prima Pipe.

Or, you could get a Blur

That clear things up? No? Sorry, best i can do.

[djelliott]

OK, here it is straight, no marketing hype:

The Buddy 125 is a great scooter that will get better gas mileage than the 150. If you just want a reliable scoot, this is a SOLID choice.

The Internationals offer 25 extra CC's and unique styling. The frame, suspension, brakes and electrics... they're all exactly the same. This is the model I chose when I bought new. The color scheme and the extra 25cc's were worth the extra $400ish (to me).

The Blackjack is a different beast. It's an international with upgraded suspension and an *included* Prima Pipe. If you're going for the Internationals and the look of them doesn't appeal to you, the extra $350 is a no brainer. Test ride an International then a Blackjack. Take them on a real road (you know, the kind with potholes and the like). You'll notice the difference!

Don't like the look of the Blackjack? Paint it. Don't like the look of the Internationals? Paint it. Painting the Buddy is a lazy afternoon's work at most.

<a href="topic8869.html#109522">Example of how plastic specific paint holds up after 1k miles and not a single washing.... </a>

The 150cc with the Prima is just plain FUN. It hauls! But don't be fooled into thinking that the 125cc is crippled. Kaos has proven that the 125cc can be a beast in it's own right. The 150 is faster stock, no one will argue that (except Kaos, and his point is how it's broken in... ask him about it. I do think it makes a difference). The 125cc has a secret weapon: the mini stroker crankshaft. It comes with a 60mm stock crankshaft compared to the 150's 58.7. Sure, it's only 1.3mm, but that makes a difference. It makes torque. Guess what drives the CVT efficiently. Torque.

What that all equates to is this. If you just want a bike to buy and ride, pick your favorite. There's a plethora of reasons to choose one over the other. Genuine's gonna market each one to specific types of buyers. Of course there's market hype! That's their game! But they sell a solid bike and they guarantee it with a warranty.

If you want a bike to mod, pick your poison from the above.

The 125cc starts with a good base (the mini-stroker crank) and it's possible to increase the displacement... with some diligence and research. (Sorry, Kaos... Can't confirm the 125cc kit until someone's tried it.) The difficulty here is that the 125cc uses a 13mm wrist pin instead of the universally available 15mm wrist pin. BUT there's places that sell the kits that'll fit (they come with a 15mm WP piston) and I've found a place that sells a 13mm WP piston. It's completely possible to increase the displacement... in theory. This is as yet untested.

The 150 is your standard GY6 engine. There's tons of kits out there (buy at your own risk! You must trust your distributor on the quality of the parts and where they come from). The 150cc has the 15mm wrist pin and *should* work with a majority of the big bore kits out there. Again, to my knowledge, there's no one who's put one on these yet that I'm aware of.

The BJ, has the 150cc engine, but if you're not buying it for the looks, you should be buying it for the suspension upgrades and the included Prima Pipe.

Or, you could get a Blur

That clear things up? No? Sorry, best i can do.

I really just wanted to quote that gigantic post.......and say, SCIENCE! (ala Thomas Dolby)

Oh, and by the way, lostmycage ( ) speaks a lot of educated facts. Nice post.

DJE

[Lostmycage]

I just like to take bags of snakes and lay them out straight!

I've done a lot of research because I've had a lot of the same questions. No matter what, you're going to buy before you're done asking questions.

When I bought my Buddy, I could have made a better choice (albeit for more money - which factors into the equation significantly), but I without a doubt made a solid choice. I've not regretted buying a Buddy once. The only reason I sold mine was because I bought a Blur with the expectation that my wife was going to start riding the Buddy. She changed her mind after we got into an accident and after riding the Blur (wasn't being sold when we bought the Buddy) I couldn't go back.

Best advice I can give a new owner: test ride everything in your price range and a few that are slightly above. A good comfortable ride is worth saving up for. Ultimately, you've got to be comfortable with what you're riding on.

LtS, if your mind isn't 100% made up on which model you want, hold off and do more research, do test rides. Thing is, your wife should be the one making the decisions since it's going to be her scoot.

Oh, the one thing I didn't mention in my previous post: In many states 150cc is the threshold for being highway legal. Not that I suggest it on 10" wheels (if you saw the condition of I64 here in Richmond, you'd understand - it looks like it's been under heavy artillery because of so many bad patch jobs), but it is something to consider, in case you live near a patrol hot-spot and the highway is the most convenient shortcut.

[Lookin' To Scoot]

Here are the out the door prices (scoot, prep, shipping, registration and sales taxes) I was given at Scoot Over in Tucson:

Buddy 125: $3,275
International: $3,825
BlackJack: $4,150

Like I said before, there is a fair jump from the 125 to the 150, but once you're at $3825, what's another $325 for what in my opinion are some pretty sweet upgrades on the BJ?

Dang, i got a pretty good deal on my BJ then. Around $3650 OTD incl tax/title. Guess goes to show you that where you are in the country makes a big difference in price.

I don't remember the exact breakdown of the numbers, but it was something like this, in round numbers:

Base price $3,499
Delivery/setup $150-200
Sales Tax-8.1% $300
Registration $100 (personal property tax in AZ)
Doc Fee/Title $50-100

Total was something like $4,149 and change.

"Pretty good deal"?! Dude, you stole the damn thing. I don't know what it costs to register a scooter where you live or what your sales tax rate is, but it would be almost impossible for the dealer to have made any money on the sale. He must be making it up on volume. Hope he's around to service it and provide any warranty work.

I'd love to see a copy of your sales invoice to help me negotiate with my dealer. Would it be too much to ask for you to pm me a copy?

[Lookin' To Scoot]

I just like to take bags of snakes and lay them out straight!

I've done a lot of research because I've had a lot of the same questions. No matter what, you're going to buy before you're done asking questions.

When I bought my Buddy, I could have made a better choice (albeit for more money - which factors into the equation significantly), but I without a doubt made a solid choice. I've not regretted buying a Buddy once. The only reason I sold mine was because I bought a Blur with the expectation that my wife was going to start riding the Buddy. She changed her mind after we got into an accident and after riding the Blur (wasn't being sold when we bought the Buddy) I couldn't go back.

Best advice I can give a new owner: test ride everything in your price range and a few that are slightly above. A good comfortable ride is worth saving up for. Ultimately, you've got to be comfortable with what you're riding on.

LtS, if your mind isn't 100% made up on which model you want, hold off and do more research, do test rides. Thing is, your wife should be the one making the decisions since it's going to be her scoot.

Oh, the one thing I didn't mention in my previous post: In many states 150cc is the threshold for being highway legal. Not that I suggest it on 10" wheels (if you saw the condition of I64 here in Richmond, you'd understand - it looks like it's been under heavy artillery because of so many bad patch jobs), but it is something to consider, in case you live near a patrol hot-spot and the highway is the most convenient shortcut.

LMC- You are a wise .

I tend to over-research just about everything I buy, partly for my own peace of mind, and the other part because my wife doesn't have the patience for such things and likes for me to narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 choices. So I do the groundwork (after more than 30 years together I've gotten to know what she likes pretty well) and then she makes the final decision. Anyway, she's retiring at the end of May, so hopefully I can do my legwork of the next few weeks and have her on the road by her big day. We live in a suburban area where the highest speed limit at least 10 miles in any direction is 45 and I don't see here venturing onto the freeway. A 125/150 should be more than adequate.

Thanks for your insight and expertise.

[Kaos]

OK, here it is straight, no marketing hype:

The Buddy 125 is a great scooter that will get better gas mileage than the 150. If you just want a reliable scoot, this is a SOLID choice.

The Internationals offer 25 extra CC's and unique styling. The frame, suspension, brakes and electrics... they're all exactly the same. This is the model I chose when I bought new. The color scheme and the extra 25cc's were worth the extra $400ish (to me).

The Blackjack is a different beast. It's an international with upgraded suspension and an *included* Prima Pipe. If you're going for the Internationals and the look of them doesn't appeal to you, the extra $350 is a no brainer. Test ride an International then a Blackjack. Take them on a real road (you know, the kind with potholes and the like). You'll notice the difference!

Don't like the look of the Blackjack? Paint it. Don't like the look of the Internationals? Paint it. Painting the Buddy is a lazy afternoon's work at most.

<a href="topic8869.html#109522">Example of how plastic specific paint holds up after 1k miles and not a single washing.... </a>

The 150cc with the Prima is just plain FUN. It hauls! But don't be fooled into thinking that the 125cc is crippled. Kaos has proven that the 125cc can be a beast in it's own right. The 150 is faster stock, no one will argue that (except Kaos, and his point is how it's broken in... ask him about it. I do think it makes a difference). The 125cc has a secret weapon: the mini stroker crankshaft. It comes with a 60mm stock crankshaft compared to the 150's 58.7. Sure, it's only 1.3mm, but that makes a difference. It makes torque. Guess what drives the CVT efficiently. Torque.

What that all equates to is this. If you just want a bike to buy and ride, pick your favorite. There's a plethora of reasons to choose one over the other. Genuine's gonna market each one to specific types of buyers. Of course there's market hype! That's their game! But they sell a solid bike and they guarantee it with a warranty.

If you want a bike to mod, pick your poison from the above.

The 125cc starts with a good base (the mini-stroker crank) and it's possible to increase the displacement... with some diligence and research. (Sorry, Kaos... Can't confirm the 125cc kit until someone's tried it.) The difficulty here is that the 125cc uses a 13mm wrist pin instead of the universally available 15mm wrist pin. BUT there's places that sell the kits that'll fit (they come with a 15mm WP piston) and I've found a place that sells a 13mm WP piston. It's completely possible to increase the displacement... in theory. This is as yet untested.

The 150 is your standard GY6 engine. There's tons of kits out there (buy at your own risk! You must trust your distributor on the quality of the parts and where they come from). The 150cc has the 15mm wrist pin and *should* work with a majority of the big bore kits out there. Again, to my knowledge, there's no one who's put one on these yet that I'm aware of.

The BJ, has the 150cc engine, but if you're not buying it for the looks, you should be buying it for the suspension upgrades and the included Prima Pipe.

Or, you could get a Blur

That clear things up? No? Sorry, best i can do.

Couldn't have said it better

The 150's have more potential for modification, since the 150 is a standard GY6 motor, while the 125 is a hybrid of two variants of the GY6.

I bought my 125 with the intention of using the money I saved on the 150cc to mod out my bike, and I did exactly that. My 125 is wicked fast.
The 150 could potentially be modded to be faster, but would take more parts than the same 125 would, since as Lostmycage said, the 125 is stock with a stroker crank, and you would have to install a stroker crank in the 150 to reach the same displacements that you can with the 125.
For instance, the 125 can be kitted to a max of 175cc without cutting anything or swapping cranks, the 150 can be kitted to only 157cc with no cutting or crank replacement.

The achillies heel of the 125 is that it uses the 50cc/100cc wrist pin (13mm) which makes it very hard to find kits for it. I've been looking for over a year, and have only very recently found a kit that *SHOULD* fit.

Bottom line is buy what you like. I liked the colors on my 125 better than the international colors, and the price wasn't worth it for 25cc's extra displacement.

I likely would have gone for the Blackjack if it had been available at the time, since its a good headstart on performance parts at a reasonable increase in price.

[beeporama]

All the hype over the Black Jack is purely marketing. Mind you, it is very nice and for all of the extra stuff you get with it, it's a great deal, but other then that it's just a plain Buddy 150 with a Prima pipe, a different disk, and really nice suspension. From a performance aspect all you get is the pipe and I think a jet.

Lots of "pure marketing" going on with the Buddy 150's... the whole "international line" is just different paint jobs and badges.

As I see it, with the BlackJack I've got on order, I'm paying for expertise (putting in good parts that I, as a mechanical idiot, wouldn't know how to pick out) and aesthetics as well as a good package deal on getting said parts together and preinstalled. That's totally worth it, especially when the dealer wants to charge me $100/hour to install anything for me. (Good thing I think can figure out a windshield and rear rack myself).

Oh yeah, I haven't been able to compare yet, but I think you're getting a better seat too-- at least for a single rider. It appears to have extra padding and be shaped for single rider comfort rather than accommodating someone on the back.

If you're going to criticize "marketing" being in the mix, you could be reductionist and say you might as well build your own from scrapped vintage parts. Or not even buy a scooter at all, if performance is what you want, since for just a little more money you can buy a small motorcycle that will smoke a 150cc scooter. (I have a friend who thinks I'm a moron for getting a BlackJack instead of a Honda Rebel.) I think it's safe to say that every one of us places some value on aesthetics, and when a company sells aesthetics you're always going to get a marketing message with it.

[Lostmycage]

...the 150 can be kitted to only 157cc with no cutting or crank replacement.

160 with a 59mm bore kit, 170 with a 61mm kit. The 59 supposedly slides right in. The 61... some say machining is necessary, others say it goes in.

Again, unconfirmed as of yet. Maybe by this summer??

[Kaos]

...the 150 can be kitted to only 157cc with no cutting or crank replacement.

160 with a 59mm bore kit, 170 with a 61mm kit. The 59 supposedly slides right in. The 61... some say machining is necessary, others say it goes in.

Again, unconfirmed as of yet. Maybe by this summer??

Ahh, good to know. I suppose that makes sense, since the 60mm cylinder will fit the 125cc case.

[eatworksleepdie]

newB here! I just got mine yesterday, and love it. super slick looking and handling. I can't believe how much power that little motor puts out. (of course keeping it at half throttle)

[Coffeejunkie]

I finally was able to find a window in the rain here in Atlanta and ride my Blackjack out onto the city streets for the first time on Saturday. It's an amazing ride, and the engine is just the coolest sounding thing on two wheels.

It was torture this morning having to take my cage to work, but with possible t-storms and a low experience level I thought it best to not risk it. If it's sunny when I get off work you bet your ass I'm taking her for spin to get in some more practice.

[black sunshine]

I finally was able to find a window in the rain here in Atlanta and ride my Blackjack out onto the city streets for the first time on Saturday. It's an amazing ride, and the engine is just the coolest sounding thing on two wheels.

It was torture this morning having to take my cage to work, but with possible t-storms and a low experience level I thought it best to not risk it. If it's sunny when I get off work you bet your ass I'm taking her for spin to get in some more practice.

oh, the jealousy you're inciting in me my brother needs a ride, so i'm really contemplating going up to Twist 'n Scoot soon and seeing if they can't finance me a nice BJ, and selling him my Buddy . . .

[eatworksleepdie]

about the financing.. My wife and I financed both of ours through Genuine Scooter. I think it's actually through Sheffield? or something like that.. anyway, Genuine was offering a 2% 3yr special, so we got it.. I hope they still have that deal going on for ya! Sorry I didn't say anything earlier. Go now!

[sparty]

is Blackjack really for single rider only? I see that everyone is loving it, but I'm not sure about the redesigned seat. Is the seat mechanism compatible with the old seat so I can swap it out in case I want to ride 2-up>

[enzomatic]

is Blackjack really for single rider only? I see that everyone is loving it, but I'm not sure about the redesigned seat. Is the seat mechanism compatible with the old seat so I can swap it out in case I want to ride 2-up>

If it is I'll trade you my standard seat for a black jack seat.

[ericalm]

is Blackjack really for single rider only? I see that everyone is loving it, but I'm not sure about the redesigned seat. Is the seat mechanism compatible with the old seat so I can swap it out in case I want to ride 2-up>

I think the seat is just as long as the stock Buddy seat, just no bump and seam in the middle. It's much comfier IMHO. Should be interchangeable if you really want to swap it.

[r0sa]

is Blackjack really for single rider only? I see that everyone is loving it, but I'm not sure about the redesigned seat. Is the seat mechanism compatible with the old seat so I can swap it out in case I want to ride 2-up>

no, I'll trade you! please pick me!

[gearhead]

is Blackjack really for single rider only? I see that everyone is loving it, but I'm not sure about the redesigned seat. Is the seat mechanism compatible with the old seat so I can swap it out in case I want to ride 2-up>

no, I'll trade you! please pick me!

noo... then how will i be able to ride?!?

[r0sa]

is Blackjack really for single rider only? I see that everyone is loving it, but I'm not sure about the redesigned seat. Is the seat mechanism compatible with the old seat so I can swap it out in case I want to ride 2-up>

no, I'll trade you! please pick me!

noo... then how will i be able to ride?!?

Geez, we can always shave the seat down

[sparty]

Yikes! Is the new seat that awesome? I couldn't tell from the pictures...can't wait for the review from JustGottaScoot.

I don't really have the need for riding 2-up at the moment (crossing fingers that one day it'll happen), just found the little bump at the back a little goofy. dont really know if there's purpose for it.

Thanks, everyone for the answers!

[ericalm]

Yikes! Is the new seat that awesome? I couldn't tell from the pictures...can't wait for the review from JustGottaScoot.

I don't really have the need for riding 2-up at the moment (crossing fingers that one day it'll happen), just found the little bump at the back a little goofy. dont really know if there's purpose for it.

Thanks, everyone for the answers!

You really just need to head to the closest dealer, see it in person, and sit in that seat.

I'm pretty impressed by how different paint and some other cosmetic changes really alters the character of the scooter.

[djelliott]

I found the seat to be very comfortable.

[peabody99]

I really love the black jack although it is kind of masculine , juvenile even, and I do NOT care for the stick-on dice motiff.

To bad they don't make a Black Jill for the ladies. The rims and the trim on the seat could be hot pink. Girls like to ride fast too you know.