Hooligan 170 vs Vespa GTS250

[Wasatch Scootah]

Hopefully someone will chime in who has owned both.

I sold my Buddy 150 a couple years ago to get a Vespa 150. Worst decision. Vespa was so slow compared to the buddy.

I sold the Vespa and now looking for a slightly bigger scooter. Rides around here require I be on roads that exceed 50mph. The 150 could handle it but I’d like something that will cruise around that speed comfortably. So I am looking at maybe a 170 or maybe something bigger.

I will occasionally use it for commuting to work, which is only a 6 mile round trip. Most uses is cruising around. Maybe with one of my kids with me. Maybe a couple times a year, take one of the kids camping just up the canyon (not a long trip. Maybe 30 miles round trip).

Hooligan is cheaper. I am thinking that will work just fine. GTS looks nice but is much more expensive and perhaps more than what I need.

Any advice?

[Guff]

Look around for a used GT200. I absolutely love mine. I ride on the highway with it at speed and its has plenty of power to get up the hills and mountains. You can usually find one relatively inexpensive.

[skipper20]

Hopefully someone will chime in who has owned both.

I sold my Buddy 150 a couple years ago to get a Vespa 150. Worst decision. Vespa was so slow compared to the buddy.

I sold the Vespa and now looking for a slightly bigger scooter. Rides around here require I be on roads that exceed 50mph. The 150 could handle it but I’d like something that will cruise around that speed comfortably. So I am looking at maybe a 170 or maybe something bigger.

I will occasionally use it for commuting to work, which is only a 6 mile round trip. Most uses is cruising around. Maybe with one of my kids with me. Maybe a couple times a year, take one of the kids camping just up the canyon (not a long trip. Maybe 30 miles round trip).

Hooligan is cheaper. I am thinking that will work just fine. GTS looks nice but is much more expensive and perhaps more than what I need.

Any advice?

I owned 2 Hooligans, a '15 and a '16. The fuel-injected 170i engine was bullet-proof and cruised all day long at 55 mph GPS verified. Highly recommended.

Bill in Seattle

[DeeDee]

Get the 250. Skip the step where you buy the Hooligan, spend time convincing yourself you made the right move, end up selling it and buying a Vespa anyway.

I'm a huge PGO fan, but come on. Steel bodied, Italian design. Lineage of where it all started. Be patient and hold out for the large frame modern Vespa. You won't regret it.

[mjrally]

I’d say pickup a used 250 if the finances allow. Cheaper but still the same technology and HP to get you up to speed/ out of the way. That is unless you are physically limited and need something smaller/ lighter. In that case, I would buy the Hooligan since it will be a low miles, fun scoot.

[Syd]

Heritage Smeritage ( ) The GTS is just a better scoot. Get the GTS.

[wheelbender6]

Seems that the Blur 220i is a little closer in performance to the Vespa 250 than the Buddy 170i.
-Alas, the Blur does not provide the classic styling of the Buddy and the Vespa.

[DeeDee]

The Vespa is a water cooled, fuel injected 4 valve motor. Blur 220i is 16 hp, Vespa is 21 hp. Not in the same ballpark. Genuine puts out a great scooter for the money, but can't come close to the Vespa.

[Dooglas]

I own a 300 GTS. It is my second GTS. I own two Buddys and have ridden a Hooligan a couple of times though I don't own one. IMO there is no comparison between the performance of the Hooligan and the GTS. In its class, the Hooligan is a decent ride and I am not, in any sense, running it down. The GTS, however, is simply a step up in performance and capabilities. It is faster, accelerates harder, tops out at a much higher speed, and will cruise all day. And that is not to mention that the scooter is truly beautiful. It is a classic design with lovely paint and bodywork. It is expensive, but you get what you pay for.

[wheelbender6]

Seems like when Taiwan builds a scoot with 4 valves and water cooling, they just dont sell like the conventional 2 valve airhead scoots. Trying to be too similar to a Vespa doesn't seem to work too well when you look at sales numbers.
-Typical scooter buyers either want to fork up the lira for a real Vespa, or settle for something inexpensive and reliable.
-Kymco tries to offer some scoots midway between those two price points.

[DeeDee]

I did a full service on a Kymco Grand Vista with 32,000 miles this summer. Scooter never had a valve adjustment. It's a 250 water cooled with carburetor. If I didn't know the odometer reading, I would have guessed 6,000 miles on the bike. Valves (two of them) were spot on.No signs of the slightest wear on variator and clutch pulleys. Scooter hauled ass. Even though I was impressed with the quality and performance of the bike, I wouldn't own one if you gave it to me. Funky seat set up for a 5'4" person. Modern crotch rocket like stance. Almost as if it was stuck between being a Ninja and a scooter. A large frame Vespa can cruise on the highway, and still fits through a 36" garage side door. It all comes down to what you prefer, and what you can afford. I would never buy a new Vespa. Let someone else take depreciation. A 16 year old GT200 looks damn near like a brand new GTS300 at a fraction of the cost. In my mind, a well cared for GTS250 with reasonable miles is the best buy out there. Stick the GTS250 and new GTS300 side by side, you will be hard pressed to find a $5,000 difference in performance.

[wheelbender6]

I would never buy a new Vespa. Let someone else take depreciation. A 16 year old GT200 looks damn near like a brand new GTS300 at a fraction of the cost.

Agreed. A well maintained, used Vespa can be a great value in the long run.

[Dooglas]

I would never buy a new Vespa. Let someone else take depreciation. A 16 year old GT200 looks damn near like a brand new GTS300 at a fraction of the cost.

Agreed. A well maintained, used Vespa can be a great value in the long run.

I agree that a well maintained GT200 Vespa is a good value and will give good service. I also agree that a GT looks very much like a more recent GTS. I don't, however, agree that a 16 year old carbureted GT is the same scooter as a recent fuel injected GTS with ABS, or that it will perform the same. My personal advice would be to look for a 5 year old GTS that is well maintained and in good condition. It will cost a $1000 to $1500 more than the GT, but it will be worth the difference.

[personality]

I'd say go for a GTS 250 or 300 mostly for the fuel injection. GT200's may be tempting but they are pretty old at this point

[Point37]

there is no replacement for displacement...from what i've read the buddy 125, 150 and 170i and the vespa 150 are similar in performance numbers...the vespa 250 is going to be much faster and more expensive...this is an apples to oranges comparison...personally i would love a vespa 300 but at the price and the actual size of it, i'd probably just jump to a motorcycle and get a ktm duke 390

[Stanza]

As others have chimed in already, for proper high speed cruising, the Hooligan is not the smart move. It's a great around town bike, and is capable of high speed, but keep in mind that 55-60 is right at the limit of it's engine. Metal body tub on the Vespa is all well and good until you have a crash, and need to shell out major money to put it back to rights, vs replacing panels on the Hooligan and other tube skeleton bikes.

If you do go the used Vespa route, make sure the seller can provide you a complete service history. Many owners get caught in the trap of thinking their bike is bulletproof because "it's a Vespa!", and they only ever do a yearly basic service. Then you take the bike, and find out the front shock is collapsing under braking, the belt is the original from 14 years ago (likewise tires), the bushings are a mess, etc etc. A well maintained Vespa is a great bike. A "rest on their laurels vespa's never break down lol" unit will give you an ulcer.

[BuddyRaton]

there is no replacement for displacement..

Except for two stroke and compression!

[tenders]

If you do go the used Vespa route, make sure the seller can provide you a complete service history.

You're rarely going to get this. Alternatively: buy a Vespa at a price that bakes in the expectation that you'll have to do a lot of maintenance on it immediately. Fluids, belt, tires, brake pads - practically a given anyway.

This isn't so bad, because that way you know exactly what and when it was done. And while you've got it apart you can do your own farkleization.

[Syd]

If you do go the used Vespa route, make sure the seller can provide you a complete service history.

You're rarely going to get this. Alternatively: buy a Vespa at a price that bakes in the expectation that you'll have to do a lot of maintenance on it immediately. Fluids, belt, tires, brake pads - practically a given anyway.

This isn't so bad, because that way you know exactly what and when it was done. And while you've got it apart you can do your own farkleization.

That is exactly what I did. Bought a GTS250 and rode to the shop for Belt/rollers, tires and a checkup. Best scoot I've ever owned.

[Wasatch Scootah]

Thanks for all the unbiased replies. I am leaning towards a bigger scooter than the 170 now.

There are two GTS 250’s for sale locally. One for $4,600 and $3,600. Both around 3-4K miles.
Also a Blur at $1,400. Maybe that’s the better buy at what, 90% of performance??

I will definitely factor in maintenance costs right up front. I’ve been burned before with sellers claiming all was up to date.

[DeeDee]

IS the blur a 220i? Not a bad bike. Vespa prices have gone crazy in the last year or so. Could find $2000 GTS250s all over the place a year ago. It's not even winter yet. Get your searches set up, and be prepared to act fast. One will come along. I bought a scooter from Texas last year. It cost me $125 on uship to get it from Texas to Colorado. Expand your search area. If the price is right, I love the big modern Vespas.

[Wasatch Scootah]

Yes, it’s a 220i. Seems like it’s in good shape. I haven’t ridden it yet though.

I’m not confident in shopping out of state. Some of the used scooters I’ve checked out in person don’t match up to the ad pictures at all.

I am hoping winter season will be a good time to pick one up.

[Point37]

post up the ads of what you're looking at...someone may comment on something you didn't see in the photos

i say go vespa if you can...personally i would pass on the blur but that's just me...it just wasn't offered for very long

maybe check here too...
http://modernvespa.com/forum/forum3

[Syd]

The seating position of the Blur is very different from the Vespa; more bent over, sport bike like. Depending on how long each GTS has sat, I'd take the one with the most miles, if it's running.

[Stanza]

Blur of any flavor has been out of production for 6 years now, make sure you will be able to get the parts you need in case repairs come up later on.

[Dooglas]

The Blur 220i still has an air cooled engine. The liquid cooling in the GT/GTS Vespas is the secret to their extended cruising capability and long engine life.

[Wasatch Scootah]

Ok, so I guess I’m going to pass on that Blur! Thought more people would suggest a Genuine. I’ll keep an eye out for a GTS. Thanks.

[Dooglas]

As I said, I honestly think the step up is to liquid cooling. That leaves out Genuine, but there are other choices out there. The Yamaha S-Max and X-Max being other examples of well built liquid cooled and fuel injected scooters. Not so pretty as a Vespa GTS, but.......

[tenders]

Ok, so I guess I’m going to pass on that Blur! Thought more people would suggest a Genuine. I’ll keep an eye out for a GTS. Thanks.

"I owned 2 Hooligans, a '15 and a '16. The fuel-injected 170i engine was bullet-proof and cruised all day long at 55 mph GPS verified. Highly recommended."

Not sure what else you were looking for! Same engine as the Buddy 170i.

Genuine's offerings above that size are thin, no two ways around that. Presumably you're not into the new G400C motorcycle:
http://www.genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

(which I don't think is selling very well)

[voodooskin]

I have a buddy 125 (would love to try a 170) and a GTS 250 - and a GTS 300.

So I can't directly compare your scoots of interest but can say the 250 is so close to the 300 as to be equivalent for me, and the display is better on the 250 (more info).

The buddy was bought from someone who kept it as a beater scoot, I did the usual basic maintenance and it is super fun and reliable. I can't take it on the 55-65mph roads I ride on the bigger vespas though. If as I think is true the 170 has the same wheelbase as the 125 I'd get the wasp for better ride at speed.

As other mentioned there's a technology gap between the older GT200 model vespas and the 250's on. Some love the older carburetor tech etc. but I'm a fan of fuel injection as are most.

Seems like you could buy used either way and not take too big a hit if you decided to sell / try the other option, if you shop well.

Good luck!

[Point37]

As I said, I honestly think the step up is to liquid cooling. That leaves out Genuine, but there are other choices out there. The Yamaha S-Max and X-Max being other examples of well built liquid cooled and fuel injected scooters. Not so pretty as a Vespa GTS, but.......

i'd toss the honda pcx 150 in there too...much faster than a hooligan/buddy 170i but def not pretty

[Aloha Joe]

How much time do you plan on spending at 50+ mph? I have a Hooligan. I ask this question because if you plan on riding highways often, it's really worthwhile to have a ride with bigger wheels. Hitting potholes at highway speeds on what is essentially a moped with a scooter engine, is a bit nerve wracking. Most 'real scooters' have bigger wheels.

Now that said, I just hit 3 years and 9000 miles. All I've ever done to it has been regular maintenance: fluids, spark plug, etc. It tops out around 73mph on the gauge, so likely somewhere in the high 60s. it gets about 80mpg. It accelerates faster than any 'normal driving' car. Yet its small enough to park on the sidewalk. Also there's plenty of room and power for a passenger. The only issue with passengers is that the passenger foot pegs are in a terrible spot, so I encourage them to use the floor board if possible.

If I was on a budget I'd get the same scooter. If I could have anything I wanted, I'd look at Yamaha, Honda, or Suzuki, to see if they have better ability to rebuild or adjust shocks (springs and oil), adjust things like brake lever travel, etc.

[jijifer]

How much time do you plan on spending at 50+ mph? I have a Hooligan. I ask this question because if you plan on riding highways often, it's really worthwhile to have a ride with bigger wheels. Hitting potholes at highway speeds on what is essentially a moped with a scooter engine, is a bit nerve wracking. Most 'real scooters' have bigger wheels.

Now that said, I just hit 3 years and 9000 miles. All I've ever done to it has been regular maintenance: fluids, spark plug, etc. It tops out around 73mph on the gauge, so likely somewhere in the high 60s. it gets about 80mpg. It accelerates faster than any 'normal driving' car. Yet its small enough to park on the sidewalk. Also there's plenty of room and power for a passenger. The only issue with passengers is that the passenger foot pegs are in a terrible spot, so I encourage them to use the floor board if possible.

If I was on a budget I'd get the same scooter. If I could have anything I wanted, I'd look at Yamaha, Honda, or Suzuki, to see if they have better ability to rebuild or adjust shocks (springs and oil), adjust things like brake lever travel, etc.

Cool! Glad you hear you have no hooligan regrets. I picked up a new one last week and I’m stoked. I had to big bore kit, big brake, upgrade shocks on to my buddy 125 to get what this comes stock on a hooligan - + bigger tires and actually dual rear shocks. I like the wider body but not too much more weight.

I would say ride a GTS before dreaming of it. It’s heavy and wide. I thought I wanted one until I sat on one.

If I’m honest with myself and riding, I don’t need to go faster than this hooligan will take me.

I’m stoked to hear you like you’re, Aloha Joe!

[Clydeo]

I don’t have either of the bikes mentioned, but there are a few universal factors that are rarely discussed:
Weight: it sounds like most of your trips are short casual ones. I have a 600 pound Vulcan. If I am going to ride a couple hundred miles, it’s great! But if I am going to run down to the hardware store, it’s just too much bother to heft that 600 pounds out of the garage. My Buddy 50 hardly weighs anything, so for a short 10 or 20 minute ride I grab the Buddy and am on the road in less than a minute.
Complexity: in general, simple is better than complex. Water cooling, 4 valves, and so on are great if you need them. But if you don’t, they are a waste. I know from experience that adjusting the valves on a 2 valve engine is a lot quicker than a 4 valve. And water cooling is great if you are doing a lot of commuting in heavy traffic, or if you are running at high speeds for long periods inTexas, but it also involves more maintenance. For the short rides such as you have described, air cooling is probably just fine.
Good enough is good enough: why buy more bike than you need? People often believe that you need a Goldwing for long distance two up touring, but my wife and I managed it with a Suzuki TUx 250 without and issues. And 80% of my riding consisted of commuting 50 miles every day, where the 75mpg and light weight of the Suzuki made a lot more sense that riding a 30 mpg 1000 pound Goldwing every day! As others have said, get a bike that will serve you well 90% of the time. You can probably figure out a way of coping with the remaining 10% of the time, as well.