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PLEASE HELP new buddy 125 rear brake issue & stability i

 
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Rdrett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:57 am    Post subject: PLEASE HELP new buddy 125 rear brake issue & stability i Reply with quote

If I apply the rear brake it feels like a bicycle with a bent rim.
Almost like a car with a warped rotor where the brake grabs tighter in one spot of the rotor.
The brake grabs tighter in one spot throughout the full rotation.
If you gradually squeeze the rear brake and turn the tire by hand you can feel it bind in one spot where the brake grabs and then it releases and goes all the way around freely until it grabs in the same spot.

Also it vibrates worse at a stop light with the rear break applied. If you release the brake the vibration goes away.

Also the scooter is dangerously unstable at anything over 35 miles an hour. It wants to wobble badly.
I have checked the tire pressure and it is set to the factory recommend 26psi front and rear.
If you hit anything, a paint line, the seam from 2 blacktop lanes on a multi lane road it wants to wobble. It is to the point that I think my scooter is dangerous. I have a 2020 Honda metropolitan that goes 40mph and it has smaller tires and it has no wobble issues.

The scooter is a 2018 buddy 125 that was new when I bought it last week. It now has 100 miles on it.


Please I need some help badly. Is there anything I can do about the wobble? Different tires or tire pressure? I really need some help here because I don’t feel safe on this scooter and my doubts is taking over.
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eggsalad
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Joined: 14 Mar 2020
Posts: 92
Location: Las Vegas
Buddy 150 International St. Tropez

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a bent or out-of-round wheel. Did you buy it from a dealer? If so, the warranty begins on the date of sale.
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buzzvert
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Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 138
Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely a rear wheel issue. One of the well-known Buddy weaknesses is the rear rim which takes quite a beating. They have FINALLY switched to alloys for the new 2020 Buddies, I noticed.

Spin it while it's on the center stand, see where the issue is. There is a possibility that the wheel itself is loose- but I'd put my money on an out of round rear-rim. The pulsing brakes are a dead giveaway as the drum presses against the housing connected to the rear wheel.

If it's in warranty, give your dealer a shot. But most rim damage is due to impact, which may not be covered.

It's a relatively easy fix but it requires purchasing and installing a rear wheel. Check eBay for a decent one- but lots online elsewhere.
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buzzvert
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Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also- in reading your post again, given the fact the scooter is new, I'm wondering if the tire is seated correctly on the rim, or if the wheel itself is loose and only being held on by the cotter pin. This kind of thing happens at dealers that push a lot of scoots- they have to assemble them when they arrive and things get missed.

Take it back- or source a rear rim if it's defective.
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Rdrett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Egg salad, there is no quote button to quote you.
It is a 2018 with the newer cast rims and I don’t see any signs of damage.

Does the rim itself have the drum? The brake shoes press against the rim? If so is the rim machined after casting?
What happens if you wear the brake pods down to metal? It will eat into the rim and you have to replace the whole rim?

Also if I turn the wheel by hand without squeezing the brake it rubs in one spot and you can hear it grab and rub as you turn it. Even when not even squeezing the brake.

I also think the extra vibration when the brake is applied is a clue. The engine Vibration doubles when the rear brake applied. When that happens you can’t see out your mirrors from the vibration.

I haven’t took it back to the dealer yet I wasn’t, it sound like I am probably going to have too. I wasn’t sure if that was normal or what I should bring up to the dealer.
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Rdrett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzvert wrote:
Also- in reading your post again, given the fact the scooter is new, I'm wondering if the tire is seated correctly on the rim, or if the wheel itself is loose and only being held on by the cotter pin. This kind of thing happens at dealers that push a lot of scoots- they have to assemble them when they arrive and things get missed.

Take it back- or source a rear rim if it's defective.


The scooter is brand spanking new and has been like that every since I got it last week.
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buzzvert
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Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that is definitely not normal. I've worked on Buddies with similar (but less severe) issues, where the rear rim took a hit.

In this case? Yes. Trailer it back to the dealer that sold it to you- it could be a bad rim, a bad brake drum or a bad hub.
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Rdrett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzvert wrote:
Yeah that is definitely not normal. I've worked on Buddies with similar (but less severe) issues, where the rear rim took a hit.

In this case? Yes. Trailer it back to the dealer that sold it to you- it could be a bad rim, a bad brake drum or a bad hub.


After checking it out more I am pretty sure it’s not normal after compared it to my Honda metropolitan.
I am going to take it back to the dealer tomorrow.


I guess I will ask him about the stability issue since I am unsure if that is normal.

Turing the tire by hand makes a roaring noise which sounds like a bad bearing. Maybe all my problems are related. It could also be my issue with the low top speed. The brake rubs in that spot without even hitting the brakes.
Maybe it could be causing the stability issue but there is no wobble in the tire rocking it in and out by hand.

I will unfortunately have to take it back to the dealer and see what he says.
Hopefully he will take care of it, he was a very small dealer with only one 50cc and 125cc in stock and the 125 I bought has set for years. It was covered in a layer of dust when I bought it and was a 2018 model.
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buzzvert
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Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the rear brake is too tight? can you back out the adjustment on the cable and see if the wobble persists? In any case, yes, it needs to go back to where you bought it. I'm sure it can be fixed but it will need to be addressed by a mechanic, or someone that can inspect/replace the rear wheel assembly. It may be something simple like the drum brake parts have come loose, etc. but there's nothing that can be done superficially to resolve the issue.
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scootERIK
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Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Buddy 125

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rdrett wrote:
It could also be my issue with the low top speed.



Your scooter goes over 50 mph so it doesn't have a low top speed for a Buddy 125. Most of my Buddy 125s have topped out at 52-53 mph. If someone told you that it would go 60+ mph either they lied to you or they don't know what they are talking about. Some people have had stock Buddy 125 scooter could go over 60mph but most of us don't. A BIG factor in top speed in your size, someone who is tall and heavy will go slower than someone who is short and light.

If you really want to go faster adding a small windscreen can help. Plus, you could inflate your tires a few more PSI, I personally like running ~29psi in the front and ~31 in the rear.
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Rdrett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scootERIK wrote:
Rdrett wrote:
It could also be my issue with the low top speed.



Your scooter goes over 50 mph so it doesn't have a low top speed for a Buddy 125. Most of my Buddy 125s have topped out at 52-53 mph. If someone told you that it would go 60+ mph either they lied to you or they don't know what they are talking about. Some people have had stock Buddy 125 scooter could go over 60mph but most of us don't. A BIG factor in top speed in your size, someone who is tall and heavy will go slower than someone who is short and light.

If you really want to go faster adding a small windscreen can help. Plus, you could inflate your tires a few more PSI, I personally like running ~29psi in the front and ~31 in the rear.


I should of noted my weight of 155 pounds for recommendations on tire pressures. 5 foot 11 tall. I have a cuppini windshield ordered. I am sure that the brake rubbing while not in use isn’t helping top speed.

I have watched a lot of YouTube video and did a lot of research before purchasing the scooter and I am convinced that 60+ mph claim is from people who don’t realize that there speedometer is off but I have seen some claim 60+ verified by gps.
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Rdrett
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Posts: 35
Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got back from the dealership and they were no help.
They said that it was normal for a brand spanking new genuine buddy to Feel the rear brake pulsating like a bad rotor.
One guy who rode it said that he couldn’t feel it at all even though he did exactly the opposite of what I told him to do to replicate the issue.
Another guy said he felt it but it was normal.
It does it when you gently apply the brake at low speed. I told him that and he takes off at high speed and doesn’t apply the brake gently, exactly the opposite of what I said to do.

Turning the wheel by hand and you can see the issue but he refused to do that.

If there is someone who lives in Lexington that owns a buddy I would appreciate it if they can try out my scooter and see if they have any of the same issues I have.

The dealer I bought it from is the only dealer in a 100 mile radius.

If anyone else has noticed their rear brake pulsating at low speed please chime in.
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tenders
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Posts: 255

Buddy International 50 Italia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is nonsense. New OR old scooters don't demonstrate wobbles, binding, grinding, pulsations, or uneven brake grabs in any way whatsoever. You aren't being treated properly by this dealer. Call Genuine in Chicago for advice.
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Rdrett
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Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tenders wrote:
This is nonsense. New OR old scooters don't demonstrate wobbles, binding, grinding, pulsations, or uneven brake grabs in any way whatsoever. You aren't being treated properly by this dealer. Call Genuine in Chicago for advice.


I told my old lady that the scooter rear brakes were pulsating and asked her to go out in the garage and perform her own test. I asked her to turn the rear wheel without touching the brake and she said that the pad was rubbing in the same spot without even touching the lever. It is rubbing and not binding when not squeezing the lever. I never told her the spot that I thought it was rubbing but she picked the same spot.

I then asked her to barely squeeze the brake lever and turn it by hand, she did and said it was binding in the same exact spot. In the spot where it starts to bind she was barely able to even turn it by hand, it turns hard for about 30-40 degrees, then releases and turns freely until it gets back to the same spot and binds again.

The guy from the dealership blew me off and said it was normal for all drum brakes. Performing the same test on my metro and it doesn’t do that whatsoever.

The dealer said that the genuine scooter company doesn’t like people filing a warranty claim until the 200 mile service has been done, whatever that means.
I am not very confident of the dealer, he sold it to me as a 2019 model even tho it was manufactured in 04/2018. I would of not purchased it having known it sat for years. It was filthy, covered with dust like it was sitting a very long time.
The dealer has a ton of bad reviews and told me that if he took the scooter now to take it apart and look at it that I would be without the scooter for two weeks at least. Apparently takes two weeks to take a tire off to inspect it? Normal?
It is a shame that I have to take apart and repair a brand new scooter under warranty. I have a feeling that a visual inspection is going to clearly show the issue. I guess that’s the next step.

I contacted the genuine scooter company and the only option for support was dealer tech support. I left a message and I am waiting for a phone call back from that department, hopefully they will help even though I am not a dealer. I am going to wait to see what they say before taking the unit apart for a visual inspection.

If you take it apart you should be able to clearly see that it is rubbing more in one spot than the rest. That’s why I was wandering if the brake rubbing surface on the rim was machined after casting. If not than there is a high chance of a casting issue in the rim.
Are the locking nuts on the rear a one time use nut that should be replaced after removing? Is the exhaust manifold gasket reusable?

I don’t know why but I suspect that the tires are causing my stability issue.
My metro has smaller tires that are made by the same company in Vietnam and it doesn’t feel like they want to wobble.
I was doing about 45mph and a semi went by me at about 55mph and the scooter started to wobble. If you drive 40mph any input to the steering wheel causes the scooter to start wobbling. Same test on the metro with smaller tires and there is no issue with wobble. Not sure what’s going on.
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Rdrett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photo test
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RoaringTodd
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Location: Philly, PA
'04 Stella GB150 '15 Roughhouse '17 Versys 650.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rear brake vibrating when you press it while stopped is completely normal. The wheel is connected directly to the motor. When you press the lever, you are closing the gap between the motor, the brake, and the motor. What you are feeling is the motor’s normal vibrations.

As to the sticking spot, give it some time. The brakes are very new and they may need more time to scrub in. Those are a wear item, so they can be replaced later on after all the brake material is worn down.

I suspect you are just not used to the bike yet? Ride it and eventually you’ll get used to it. Every bike is different.

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buzzvert
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Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if it's causing a wobble when you're not braking, the bike needs to be fixed.

if it only wobbles while braking, there is a CHANCE the drum brake shoes have not bedded a bit but that's still not normal. and 40 degrees of drag? NOT normal. Can you back out the rear brake cable adjustor to see if the wobble goes away? Note that this may render your rear brake lever travel out of spec.
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Rdrett
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Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put my 30 pound tool bag on the floorboard and it felt a lot more stable while I was riding with the extra weight on the floorboard.

Unbelievable difference with the extra weight.

I think that I am starting to get a little used to it. I have a windshield, front rack, rear rack with backrest and the cowl guards coming. I think I am going to try Michelin tires and add as much weight as possible.

I would love to add about 30 pounds the the floorboard somehow, I might try and cast some lead to add weight down low.
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fried okra
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Scarabeo

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My new 2019 Buddy with the new cast alloy wheels did the same thing.

My dealer got authorization from the corporate folks, who sent a new rear drum, and the dealer installed free of charge.

Smooth as silk braking now.

Your dealer is giving you the "run around".

fried okra
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Rdrett
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Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fried okra wrote:
My new 2019 Buddy with the new cast alloy wheels did the same thing.

My dealer got authorization from the corporate folks, who sent a new rear drum, and the dealer installed free of charge.

Smooth as silk braking now.

Your dealer is giving you the "run around".

fried okra

Mine is a 2019 model made in 04/2018 and has cast wheels.

Yes the dealer gave me the run around and the genuine scooter company never returned my phone call.

I have new tires on the way and I will do a visual inspection on the brake drum when I go to install the new tires.
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fried okra
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Scarabeo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dealer called the US distributor for Buddy, and a new wheel arrived in a few days.

Your dealer is not stepping up.

fried okra
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Rdrett
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Location: Lexington ky
2018 Buddy 125, 2020 Honda metropolitan

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to update everyone about the issues.
Stability issues are better after adding some weight, breaking in the tires and increasing the psi to 30.

Speed is insane after break-in. I added the windshield and can obtain speeds well over 60mph gps verified. I had it up to 62mph today on a limited access highway and still had a couple mph left in it but I let off because it is dangerously unstable at that speed and wanted to wobble very very badly.

Brakes still grabs, I had to perform an emergency stop when some idiot pulled out in front of me and the rear brake locked on me right where it binds. I have to be careful because the rear brake wants to lock up on wet roads because of the binding and I have already almost laid it down once when the rear end started to fishtail.

Love the scooter with the insane power and speed but this thing has to be the most dangerous scooter I have ever ridden. This thing is a death trap which makes it fun to ride, I get the same feeling from it as when I was a kid and used to do dome things that I knew where deadly but I did them anyway. Hopefully I don’t get killed on this thing!

I am hoping the new tires will increase stability and I plan to check the brake when I have the rear rim off.

The scooter will be bad ass if I can fix the stability issue and the defective rear brake.

Also genuine scooter company never returned my call about the rear brake, I guess my life isn’t important enough for them to worry about fixing my new scooter that is under warranty.
I am hoping that when I remove the rear tire the defective will be visual so I can send pictures to genuine scooter company and hopefully they will send me the replacement part because I really don’t want to deal with the dealer I bought it from. Maybe another genuine scooter dealer will use my pictures for the warranty claim and send me the replacement part at my expense for the shipping of the part. They will get paid for the warranty claim and I will do the labor so hopefully a genuine dealer will help me fix the issue. If not I will have to drive 200 miles round trip to the next closest genuine dealer which would probably be more expensive than just buying the replacement part myself and being done with it . Shocked Very Happy
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JettaKnight
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2007 Series Italia 161, 2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rdrett wrote:
Speed is insane after break-in. I added the windshield and can obtain speeds well over 60mph gps verified. I had it up to 62mph today on a limited access highway and still had a couple mph left in it but I let off because it is dangerously unstable at that speed and wanted to wobble very very badly.

Brakes still grabs, I had to perform an emergency stop when some idiot pulled out in front of me and the rear brake locked on me right where it binds. I have to be careful because the rear brake wants to lock up on wet roads because of the binding and I have already almost laid it down once when the rear end started to fishtail.


OK, none of that is normal. My Buddy doesn't wobble, and brake has a little warpage now after 13 years, but no where near enough to be dangerous.
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fried okra
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Scarabeo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You almost had a crash because of a grabby rear brake.

I would let the dealer/mfr know you plan to report it to the NHTSA Defects group unless they fix it before you have a possible crash.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/14218-mvsdefectsandrecalls_041619-v2-tag.pdf
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charlie55
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to be brusque, but why in hell are you riding something at 60+ MPH that:

- You feel is unstable.
- Has to be weighted down to function only half-assedly
- Has a defective brake or suspension that seems to try to kill you.

This is not normal, and it ain't gonna fix itself. The only adrenaline rush you get should be from the ride itself and not from having won a round of Russian roulette. One day, the scoot's gonna win.

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