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Cheap Alternative to OEM Ignition

 
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buddys_n_blasters
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Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Buddy 50

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: Cheap Alternative to OEM Ignition Reply with quote

Bought a scoot but it needed a new ignition. I didn't want to pay the 100 or so bucks for a new OEM part, so I looked around and found this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074X4VCNL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fits the buddy perfectly (at least my buddy 50), only issue is the steering lock is a little long. To fix that just take the steering lock pin out of your old broken ignition and fit it into this one.

The seat latch cable also took a little bit of adjusting (i had to tighten the spring in the latch under the seat, talked about this in a different post), but in the end it worked out and saved 80 bucks. Not bad!

(Check message below for clarification on the wiring situation)


Last edited by buddys_n_blasters on Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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tenders
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Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 250

Buddy International 50 Italia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I”m not in the market for a new ignition, but that is cool. Does it have a compatible seat release mechanism too?
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buddys_n_blasters
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Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Buddy 50

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tenders wrote:
I”m not in the market for a new ignition, but that is cool. Does it have a compatible seat release mechanism too?


Yep, it works. The latch uses a regular cable, and this one has a place for the cable head to fit and the internals to pull it when you turn the key counterclockwise. It pulls a little bit less distance, so I had to tighten up the spring in the seat latch to compensate, but it definitely works now Smile
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djrocker1007
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Joined: 10 Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Houston, Texas
Buddy 50

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject: Aftermarket ignition switch Reply with quote

Thanks for the post! I bought the same aftermarket ignition switch but the plug is different and the wires are different colors. Did you have to rewire the original plug on the one you bought?

Thanks!
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buddys_n_blasters
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Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Buddy 50

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:56 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket ignition switch Reply with quote

djrocker1007 wrote:
Thanks for the post! I bought the same aftermarket ignition switch but the plug is different and the wires are different colors. Did you have to rewire the original plug on the one you bought?

Thanks!


Yes that's true, I totally forgot about that part! So to get around that I did the following:

1) Remove the stock ignition - self explanatory

2) Take off the white plastic plug from the stock ignition - Remove the wires from the white plastic plug on both the stock ignition AND the amazon one I linked. You have to get in there with a tiny screwdriver, depress the copper barb that keeps it in place, and pull.

3) Put new wires into old plug - Stick the now-plugless wires from the amazon ignition into the stock plug. Unfortunately I forget the exact positions and color codes and i have the bike closed so i cant take a pic. You can figure it out using a continuity check from a multimeter, just match everything up as best you can - key in the on position should make the wires closest to the clasp beep, I remember that much. You'll notice there's a 4th wire with a round tip that doesn't fit. Next step addresses that. If you have any trouble here let me know i can try a little harder to remember.

4) Replace the wire with the round metal tip with a compatible metal tip from the old - Cut the compatible metal tip off of one of the stock wires, leave some extra wire, you'll need it. Cut the round tip off of the 4th wire and splice the compatible end onto it.

After that you should be all set! Let me know how it goes for you!
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djrocker1007
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Joined: 10 Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Houston, Texas
Buddy 50

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Wiring Reply with quote

These are the colors I have on the new switch vs. the original plug. I cut the wires and was going to solder/heat shrink them. When I hooked it up as pictured, it blew the fuse. Thanks again for the assistance.
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buddys_n_blasters
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Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Buddy 50

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about the fuse. If i had to guess I'd say the black wire on the left should take the place of the orange wire on the right. Doing a continuity check with a multimeter and matching outcomes is the only way to be 100% sure.
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djrocker1007
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Joined: 10 Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Houston, Texas
Buddy 50

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Wiring Reply with quote

That did the trick! Thanks Bud!
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estifallen
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Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 2
Location: Denver
Buddy 50

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 3:06 am    Post subject: Re-Installing the regular ignition switch? Reply with quote

Hey all, I think that I may be a bit more faint hearted than you guys. I tried to install this ignition switch and all was going well and I got the seat wire hooked up etc. but then I just had no idea how to get the four wires set up properly.

I created a chart and there were 24 possible combinations for how to wire the ignition. I was working my way through the chart and testing each combination and trying to get the scooter to start with no luck, but I think that's just because at some point along the way I blew the fuse and even if I had gotten the right combination at some point, there was no current passing through the wires.

The fuse also may have just blown when I disconnected the original ignition...I am not really sure how this system works.

I bought a box of new fuses from O'Reilly's today.

At this point, I do not have any ignition wires of any kind hooked up and I noticed that when I went to hook up a new fuse, it blew immediately.

I have now ordered the OEM ignition switch, thinking that it might be easier to just plug in the original part...but I am curious if anyone out there might be able to offer some advise on the fuse situation?

These are my questions:
1) What is the best fuse to use -- Amps / Volts ?
2) When should I plug in the fuse -- before/after hooking up the ignition?
3) Are there any other considerations to keep in mind?

I would be grateful for any advice or input, thanks you guys!
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estifallen
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Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 2
Location: Denver
Buddy 50

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Re-Installing the regular ignition switch? Reply with quote

estifallen wrote:
Hey all, I think that I may be a bit more faint hearted than you guys. I tried to install this ignition switch and all was going well and I got the seat wire hooked up etc. but then I just had no idea how to get the four wires set up properly.

I created a chart and there were 24 possible combinations for how to wire the ignition. I was working my way through the chart and testing each combination and trying to get the scooter to start with no luck, but I think that's just because at some point along the way I blew the fuse and even if I had gotten the right combination at some point, there was no current passing through the wires.

The fuse also may have just blown when I disconnected the original ignition...I am not really sure how this system works.

I bought a box of new fuses from O'Reilly's today.

At this point, I do not have any ignition wires of any kind hooked up and I noticed that when I went to hook up a new fuse, it blew immediately.

I have now ordered the OEM ignition switch, thinking that it might be easier to just plug in the original part...but I am curious if anyone out there might be able to offer some advise on the fuse situation?

These are my questions:
1) What is the best fuse to use -- Amps / Volts ?
2) When should I plug in the fuse -- before/after hooking up the ignition?
3) Are there any other considerations to keep in mind?

I would be grateful for any advice or input, thanks you guys!


Okay, now I'm feeling like an idiot -- for some reason when I originally pulled up this thread, I never saw the photos that you guys posted showing how things should be wired! I do not know why those did not load.

I am still not certain the fuse issue, but hopefully that will just work out okay once I set things up with the new ignition switch.

Dang, if only I had seen those pics initially this probably would've worked beautifully!

Not sure if anyone is still looking at this thread, but I'll post an update after installing the new (OEM) ignition in case there is any helpful info after completing that job.
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JettaKnight
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 633
Location: Fort Wayne
2007 Series Italia 161, 2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Re-Installing the regular ignition switch? Reply with quote

estifallen wrote:

Okay, now I'm feeling like an idiot -- for some reason when I originally pulled up this thread, I never saw the photos that you guys posted showing how things should be wired! I do not know why those did not load.


You weren't logged in. I'm pretty sure images are only available to logged in users.
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rol1
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Joined: 16 Jun 2020
Posts: 11
Location: Las Vegas
Rough house Buddy

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the gy6 colors red powers black with switch on. The blue/white grounds to green for a kill switch in the off position.

On my Buddy the switch on position connects battery, red/white to power the orange. The other two wires are also connected when the switch is in the on position, but separate. When the key is off none of the four are connected.

When I tried to use a gy6 switch, red to red/white, black(gy6 switched power) to orange, green(gy6 ground) to Buddy black (ground), and the blue/white (gy6 kill) to the last it wouldn't button start. It would kick easy. And when the key was off it lit a light on the dash. When I put the original Buddy switchback back on it started and stopped properly.

You have to have two connection in the on position, and no kill or connections in the off position.
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buzzvert
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Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 138
Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have the original ignition assembly. Can the pin on this be modded to work?
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buzzvert
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Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 138
Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer my own question (and hopefully someone else's), the answer is that you can cut down the pin that comes with this ignition unit with an angle grinder. Here's the result with the corresponding measurements. Note that I cut the pin with the key in the FORK LOCK position so it was easier to get a clean angle grinder cut. That's the longer dimension. Retracted, it's around 11mm which clears the fork when the key is in the unlocked position.
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buzzvert
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Posts: 138
Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiring:

New Ignition---------Buddy

Black---------------- Orange
Red/White-----------Red/White
Black/White---------Blue/White
Green----------------Black
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buzzvert
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Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 138
Location: Longmont, CO
2008 Buddy 125, 2003 Vespa ET4 150 - lots of previous scoots

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I definitely spoke too soon on this.

On at least this Buddy 50 that I am working on, two things have to happen when you turn the key. The orange wire and the red/white wire have to make a circuit. That's current. Also, the Blue/Black and Black wire have to make a circuit. That tells the starter relay to start.

This aftermarket switch seems to do a fine job with connecting hot, but doesn't seem to do anything with the other two wires, which SHOULD make a circuit when the key is turned. The switch is still "usable" if you wire the blue/black and black on the ignition together directly and use the key as an on switch, but then you have to use the killswitch to turn it off.

So that was a whole lot of time wasted Neutral I suspect this will work fine on pre-2012 Buddies. For me it's back to square one.

UPDATE: The concept of a secondary killswitch is growing on me. There's nothing functionally wrong with the idea, so I snagged the bright/dim switch from the rotting Piaggio Fly in the backyard and wired it in. It'll work until I feel like I can find an OEM or salvage part. Or, if I keep the bike it's character. Most of my projects go to friends anyway, and they can deal. If this was a show bike I'd think twice, but this ain't that.
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rol1
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Joined: 16 Jun 2020
Posts: 11
Location: Las Vegas
Rough house Buddy

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put a relay on the ignition. Had to add a separate ground. The relay used 85 and 86 to actuate the relay. I tapped 85 into the orange switched power. I soldered 85 through a bullet connector to a ground.
When the switch is turned on the relay makes the connection. I then connected the blue/black and black to the other 2 terminals. Number 87 and the other, 90?
This leaves the kill in off circuit unused. I just clipped them off, but it could be used for something. Took me a week to figure out an old Riva, switch in off powered a dual pole horn button that illuminated a beauty ring around the key. Push the horn button and and the keyhole lights up. I'm getting ideas.
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Dooglas
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Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 4309
Location: Oregon City, OR
Buddy 125, Buddy Kick, Vespa GTS300

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the challenge - and sense of accomplishment - in getting a clever repair to work. I salute you guys for it. On the other hand, these descriptions sound like the money saved on a non-OEM ignition switch was pretty well used up in the time (and frustration) required to make less suitable alternatives work. Confused
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rol1
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Joined: 16 Jun 2020
Posts: 11
Location: Las Vegas
Rough house Buddy

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, satisfaction. Using a instock switch and a relay from the junk box with a few terminals from a dead harness, cool. Satisfaction of thinking of some mechanic popping the cover and seeing a tumor growing off the side of the ignition, priceless. Almost as good as repairing wire harnesses with random colored wires.
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