stella 4t availablity.

bosco · Post by **bosco** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:43 pm

I know there is a bunch of other threads.

The latest unofficial word I have from an insider is:

October.

One word, no explanation. No date specific.

And the incentives coming for the 2t and buddys will be sweet.

carry on.
I have no other information.

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:55 am

"late fall" is what I've heard. The latest will be on my blog after I get a confirmation. This is nutty!

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:21 pm

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:44 pm

And here it is - and it ain't great news if you are waiting on a Stella 4t

http://www.examiner.com/scooter-in-detr ... oke-update

and a bit more here:
http://community.motorcycleshows.com/_G ... 51420.html

Genuine feels very crappy about this whole situation, and my heart goes out to them and to all of you waiting for your Stella 4t to arrive, dealers and individuals alike...

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:00 pm

I honestly don't know how much more of this I can stand... Not the delay, the lack of information from Genuine. Every bit of information always seems like it has to come from a third party. Nothing on the Genuine site, twitter, or facebook. I can deal with product delays, it's too hot to ride here right now anyway

. But keeping the consumer completely in the dark is another thing entirely.

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:20 pm

I know you have no more info - I am just clairifying...

bosco wrote:And the incentives coming for the 2t and buddys will be sweet...

did you mean 2t or 4t? Because you also mention buddies I figure you meant 2t, but since you titled this subject "stella 4t availablity," I 'm just clairifying.
- if 4t, then there was talk of a rewards program that got us excited and that would be nice if it were true (officially: no word yet).
- if 2t, then I guess they want to help dealers sell off the old models that are I guess not selling. - they do that about every year, it seems. however, it'd be an interesting move for a company who is trying to help keep people holding onto their deposits and not buy something else, since I feel the biggest temptation to drop my deposit is all the 2t Stellas in stock. any further sale price drops or incentives would be practcally begging depositors to give up.

I am dumb- only now that I just typed that. do I realize that may* be Genuine's new plan entirely. Get everybody who has any $ in a 4T to happily buy and get into a 2T (or something else from genuine- buddy?) and then the Pressure's off Genuine and this "no end date" EPA dilemma...
interesting.

*Not a bad plan actually- IF that's the plan - I could just be reading into it. I have no facts, only speculation- that's why I only "forum" and dont write articles.

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm

Rippinyarn wrote:And here it is - and it ain't great news if you are waiting on a Stella 4t

http://www.examiner.com/scooter-in-detr ... oke-update

and a bit more here:
http://community.motorcycleshows.com/_G ... 51420.html

Genuine feels very crappy about this whole situation, and my heart goes out to them and to all of you waiting for your Stella 4t to arrive, dealers and individuals alike...

??!!??!!?!?!?

... I have to process this and count to 10... or 1 million or something before I post a response, (not to you,Rippinyarn, you are awesome, but more to the Scooter gods- if they're even listening)

Post by **illnoise** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:11 am

I think he meant "2T Stellas and some Buddys and other models", that was the gist of McCaleb's twitter post.

I think Genuine would like to sell the 4Ts more than the 2Ts. whatever 2Ts they have remaining (and I doubt it's all that many, honestly) will sell eventually. Dealers obviously don't like having bikes on the floor too long (financing eats up their take, which is small anyway) but the Stella 2T is a different case, no one cares about model years there, they want it for what it is.

I think the point of the discounts is that they need to sell SOMETHING because they're not selling much thanks to the economy AND the 4T delay.

Did I hear an insinuation somewhere that the 2Ts won't be discontinued after all? that's the best news I've heard all year.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:56 am

From what I understand, LML will be winding down production of the 2Ts which will be phased out over time.

What I've heard is that they're currently producing a new batch of 4Ts which fully conform to Genuine's specs. These will be completed and sent to the US while the ones that are currently in the Us are en route back to India. So. They're trying to get sellable scoots here as soon as they can.

Genuine just informed the dealers of this yesterday.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:07 am

Lovelandstella wrote:I am dumb- only now that I just typed that. do I realize that may* be Genuine's new plan entirely. Get everybody who has any $ in a 4T to happily buy and get into a 2T (or something else from genuine- buddy?) and then the Pressure's off Genuine and this "no end date" EPA dilemma...
interesting.

*Not a bad plan actually- IF that's the plan - I could just be reading into it. I have no facts, only speculation- that's why I only "forum" and dont write articles.

It is a bad plan. And it makes no business sense whatsoever. Most of the people who want a Stella 4T, for the most part, will buy a Stella 4t or wait. Yes, Genuine does want to be selling scooters, but discounts on existing models probably won't sway most who have already committed to buying the 4T. Those who want the Stella 4T have either been able to get a 2T all along or are those of us in CA who couldn't get one before and can't now.

None of this will take the pressure off. They'll be selling at a discount to stimulate sales of '09 stock. Those who want the Stella 4T will still want it. And the boost in sales that Genuine and the dealers were expecting from 4T sales won't be coming when they thought it would; it'll probably be distributed over the fall and winter.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:50 am

ericalm wrote:
Lovelandstella wrote:I am dumb- only now that I just typed that. do I realize that may* be Genuine's new plan entirely. Get everybody who has any $ in a 4T to happily buy and get into a 2T (or something else from genuine- buddy?) and then the Pressure's off Genuine and this "no end date" EPA dilemma...
interesting.

*Not a bad plan actually- IF that's the plan - I could just be reading into it. I have no facts, only speculation- that's why I only "forum" and dont write articles.
It is a bad plan. And it makes no business sense whatsoever. Most of the people who want a Stella 4T, for the most part, will buy a Stella 4t or wait. Yes, Genuine does want to be selling scooters, but discounts on existing models probably won't sway most who have already committed to buying the 4T. Those who want the Stella 4T have either been able to get a 2T all along or are those of us in CA who couldn't get one before and can't now.

None of this will take the pressure off. They'll be selling at a discount to stimulate sales of '09 stock. Those who want the Stella 4T will still want it. And the boost in sales that Genuine and the dealers were expecting from 4T sales won't be coming when they thought it would; it'll probably be distributed over the fall and winter.

Absolutely right, Eric.

I think the reactions here are more than a bit skewed toward the side of the impatient who will run to a 2T if they can't be instantly gratified. I suspect there are more than a few of us out here want the 4T, have no desire at all for a 2T, have been around the block enough times to know about the inevitable delays of new product introductions, and are patient enough not to work ourselves into a frenzy about it. You're just not hearing from us as often or as vociferously.

BrooktownGeezer · Post by **BrooktownGeezer** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:18 am

By the way, it's highly doubtful that when the new scooters do arrive, they will be heading directly to dealers. The EPA will have to look the new batch over for compliance before giving the green light. Might be quick, might not.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:46 am

Man, Genuine must be so outraged with LML. To have been sent a bum batch of scooters, first batch, big new launch... I would be friggin' furious. LML best be eatin' all the cost of this...

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:55 pm

I was hanging out with my dealer when this news came through the interwebs. They were aghast. Glad I picked up this 04...now just hoping that those bearings hold up!

BrooktownGeezer · Post by **BrooktownGeezer** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:24 pm

I'm sure Genuine is upset about it, but if I were launching a new line of scooters, I'd have my own representative over in India checking them for compliance before they ever shipped. That's what most companies do who import products into the US...you can't just order something and hope everything is honky dory, as though you were importing keychains or something.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:13 pm

BrooktownGeezer wrote:I'm sure Genuine is upset about it, but if I were launching a new line of scooters, I'd have my own representative over in India checking them for compliance before they ever shipped. That's what most companies do who import products into the US...you can't just order something and hope everything is honky dory, as though you were importing keychains or something.

For an import arrangement of this scope, keeping a full-time employee on-site at the factory is almost mandatory if you want to avoid this sort of snafu. When my wife was in the boat business in the '80s doing interiors for Taiwan-built yachts, that is what all the responsible importers did. It was the only way to keep factories from cutting corners.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:59 pm

Silver Streak wrote:
BrooktownGeezer wrote:I'm sure Genuine is upset about it, but if I were launching a new line of scooters, I'd have my own representative over in India checking them for compliance before they ever shipped. That's what most companies do who import products into the US...you can't just order something and hope everything is honky dory, as though you were importing keychains or something.
For an import arrangement of this scope, keeping a full-time employee on-site at the factory is almost mandatory if you want to avoid this sort of snafu. When my wife was in the boat business in the '80s doing interiors for Taiwan-built yachts, that is what all the responsible importers did. It was the only way to keep factories from cutting corners.

On the other hand, LML has been making the 2Ts for years without a hitch like this. Those still had to pass EPA regs, just like the 4Ts and have reliably done so.

Without knowing what the specific violations were, I'm hesitant to point any fingers. Given the complexity and anal retention of the bureaucracy, it could have been a completely innocuous error that neither LML nor Genuine would have thought would cause this kind of debacle. (Obviously, they didn't.) We do know that the violations were not related to actual emissions and "are non-mechanical and easily resolved." So it may be something as dumb as a part substitution when a part from Manufacturer A was used in the test version of the scoot but they were able to source the part from Manufacturer B for the production run and it was cheaper or more convenient. Same essential part, same functioning, different labels on it, EPA rejects it. 'Cause that's how it works—or doesn't work.

BrooktownGeezer · Post by **BrooktownGeezer** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:12 pm

It's not a matter of pointing fingers, it's just an observation. Genuine doesn't need a full time employee there. All they need is a trip to India a week or two prior to shipping, a copy of the EPA documents, and a scooter to tear apart to do their own inspection. That would take all of a day or two, and you would know the skinny before the EPA ever set eyes on them. The cost of that one inspection trip would pale in comparison to the sales they have lost, not to mention the cost of re-shipping the 1,000 4T bikes back to India.

As a company owner doing business in 10 states, I've learned that all the paperwork and good intentions sometimes aren't enough to prevent misunderstandings....there's nothing like seeing things with your own eyes from time to time.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:49 pm

BrooktownGeezer wrote:It's not a matter of pointing fingers, it's just an observation. Genuine doesn't need a full time employee there. All they need is a trip to India a week or two prior to shipping, a copy of the EPA documents, and a scooter to tear apart to do their own inspection. That would take all of a day or two, and you would know the skinny before the EPA ever set eyes on them. The cost of that one inspection trip would pale in comparison to the sales they have lost, not to mention the cost of re-shipping the 1,000 4T bikes back to India.

As a company owner doing business in 10 states, I've learned that all the paperwork and good intentions sometimes aren't enough to prevent misunderstandings....there's nothing like seeing things with your own eyes from time to time.

I'm afraid I have to beg to differ. When an American company has a product being built to its specs in a foreign factory, on-site, continuing quality control has to be exercised from the git-go. What good would it do to find out a week before shipment that the product does not meet specs? Far better to make sure that the job is being done right all along.

On-site QC is the method used by nearly every reputable company having product manufactured in the developing world.

Nickie McNichols · Post by **Nickie McNichols** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:48 am

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Post by **ericalm** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:54 am

Well, I'm definitely not trying to engender any kind of argument on the topic.

As I said, I don't know what the specific issue is but if it's a matter of parts substitution or similar, it may be something that even a stringent QC person in India may not catch. That's not a reason not to have one there…

BUT, possible reasons not to have one may be prior experience with LML and that they'd already cranked out thousands for Europe with no QC issues or problems meeting ECE regs.

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:22 am

point of order: India is a middle income country.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:03 am

Thanks for posting that, Nickie McNichols. Where did it come from?

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:57 pm

JoshWED wrote:point of order: India is a middle income country.

Who said it wasn't?

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:14 pm

Nobody...but implying that it's developing is being untoward. Taiwan, India...these places are doing quite well. NICs by all accounts.

That said, Genuine is crazy for not having a point person in-country. Shit, when I was in the private sector we even had in-house people in Europe, etc.

Genuine is a small fish and in this instance they are really showing it. I have some strange laissez-faire schadenfreude about it too. If only it didn't hurt the dealers, too....

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:50 pm

JoshWED wrote:Nobody...but implying that it's developing is being untoward. Taiwan, India...these places are doing quite well. NICs by all accounts.

That said, Genuine is crazy for not having a point person in-country. Shit, when I was in the private sector we even had in-house people in Europe, etc.

Genuine is a small fish and in this instance they are really showing it. I have some strange laissez-faire schadenfreude about it too. If only it didn't hurt the dealers, too....

Well, we're into the area of semantics here, and I'm as sensitive to the issues as anybody... but, India is on the IMF's list of developing countries and everybody else's as well, and my references to Taiwan dealt with the circumstances in existence in the '80s.

I agree that the issue is less about the degree of development of the country of manufacture and more about the lack of sophistication of Genuine as an importer of fairly complicated foreign-produced products. They are not THAT small, and they've been importing scooters for quite a while now. They've just been lucky that they haven't been burned to this extent before.

I'll wager they'll pay more attention to on-site, ongoing QC at the point of manufacture in the future if they make it through this OK.

Nickie McNichols · Post by **Nickie McNichols** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:50 pm

ericalm wrote:Thanks for posting that, Nickie McNichols. Where did it come from?

It came from our Genuine Dealer. Actionwheelsports, here in St Pete. It was faxed to him by Genuine. We got it Saturday, because we are thinking about getting a 4T. Maybe a nice 2T...

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:14 pm

Cruiser or Stella 4t, which will come first? Discuss...

Seriously though, I have read that the Crusier was slated for sometime in 2010. I doubt that will happen, but if it's early 2011, I would be tempted to hold off on the 4t and get a Cruiser. As it atands I'll keep my deposit down on the 4t, and see what comes down the pike...

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:57 pm

EvilTweety wrote:Cruiser or Stella 4t, which will come first? Discuss...

Seriously though, I have read that the Crusier was slated for sometime in 2010. I doubt that will happen, but if it's early 2011, I would be tempted to hold off on the 4t and get a Cruiser. As it atands I'll keep my deposit down on the 4t, and see what comes down the pike...

Well, considering they are wildly different scooters (shifty vs. TnG, 150cc vs. 300cc, city vs. touring scoot) you may want to consider the Blur, available NOW at fine dealers everywhere

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:12 pm

I just don't like the angular look of most modern scooters, no offense. I'm a retro guy... I love the look of the Stella, and want a 4 stroke. It would really depend on if the Cruiser was all plasticy. More likely than not, I'll have my butt on a 4t before a Cruiser.

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:32 pm

No probs E. Tweety, but then you may want to consider the old-school Vespa look as found in the wonderful Bajaj Chetak 4t, available used for pennies on the dollar in Craigslist ads everywhere

Post by **illnoise** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:35 pm

The cruiser has a plastic body and a tube frame, but it looks more subtly retro than most plastic bikes. On paper.

What you need is a Fuji Rabbit! 250cc 4stroke, metal body, standard transmission!

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:00 pm

illnoise wrote:The cruiser has a plastic body and a tube frame, but it looks more subtly retro than most plastic bikes. On paper.

What you need is a Fuji Rabbit! 250cc 4stroke, metal body, standard transmission!

off the subject I know- but you've seen the genuine cruiser on paper?! like an image?! I'll even take a 4 years old sketch of the official image at this point-
otherwise all I know of is a list of "why it'll be cool"- like something I would have written in my clubhouse when I was 14.

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:26 am

Rippinyarn wrote:No probs E. Tweety, but then you may want to consider the old-school Vespa look as found in the wonderful Bajaj Chetak 4t, available used for pennies on the dollar in Craigslist ads everywhere

illnoise wrote:The cruiser has a plastic body and a tube frame, but it looks more subtly retro than most plastic bikes. On paper.

What you need is a Fuji Rabbit! 250cc 4stroke, metal body, standard transmission!

I have thought about getting a used scoot. Only one problem, I'm a techie. My Kung Foo is not strong in the ways of internal combustion.

So I gotta have a scoot with a warranty!

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:12 am

The cruiser and Stella are totally different concepts from totally different places and totally different reasons they're not available.

The cruiser is in development. Genuine has never said when it would be available. The closest they've come is confirming its existence and saying they hoped to have one late this year/early next for industry shows.

If there's any relationship between the cruiser and the Stella, it may be that the current delays and issues from the Stella may further delay the cruiser because of the time and resources Genuine's devoted to dealing with this.

The Stella is a totally different matter, as anyone who's been reading these threads should know by now. These are out of development, in production and already available overseas. They were shipped to the US and this is what happened, so they're producing more and shipping those in the US back to India.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:50 pm

Amigos, it's not often that I "go to the source" to speak with people at Genuine about issues, but this is one of the few times that warranted it. We ride a fine line here because we want an honest and open forum and neither Genuine nor I want MB to act as a mouthpiece for the company. They have never asked us to make any changes here or remove any content or criticism and the only time anyone from the company posts here is Philip McCaleb's once-a-year holiday thanks to MB members and Genuine owners.

But I think the chatter about this issue is snowballing and a lot of assumptions and insinuations are getting tossed around. It bugs me when people start talking smack with no info to back it up. It also bugs me when folks automatically assume the worst about everyone and everything else. I'm a fairly cynical guy but also try not to jump to conclusions or rush to judgment.

Genuine's not a perfect company (there are no perfect companies), but there's no conspiracy, cover up or attempt to obfuscate going on here. No realistic amount of selling other models via late-season discounts will compensate for what they've lost due to the Stella delays. They're as frustrated and dismayed by all of this as any of you are—even more so. Consumers don't get the scooter they wanted when they wanted but Genuine and dealers are seeing significant losses in expected revenue from this snafu.

Here's a message Genuine is posting for their customers:

Dear Genuine Customers,

US regulatory agencies have expressed concerns over minor variances
between production specifications and our first production run of the
new Stella 4 stroke scooter.

We are returning the scooters to the factory to address the concerns.

These concerns are non-mechanical and have no effect on the emissions
standards, the safety, or the operation of the Stella 4 stroke scooter.

We will provide more information regarding availability as we complete
these tasks.

We know the delays encountered due to this issue have been a
disappointment for the many dealers and consumers that were anxiously
awaiting the arrival of the new Stella. It has been disappointing for
Genuine as well. However, Genuine Scooters is always committed to
following all laws, rules, and regulations to deliver the best scooters
in the business. Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,

Your friends at Genuine Scooters

There's no new info there, but it's addressed to the customers rather than dealers.

Secondly, I've been told that Genuine does, in fact, have full-time QC people working with both LML and PGO and that they monitor quality very closely during production runs.

The EPA's issue with the Stellas is not something that QC would have caught.

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:24 pm

So is this the "announcement" that Philip tweeted about this morning?

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:46 pm

EvilTweety wrote:So is this the "announcement" that Philip tweeted about this morning?

yes.

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:53 pm

and this was too long for Facebook?

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:06 pm

EvilTweety wrote:and this was too long for Facebook?

Probably too long to post as a status update.

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:25 pm

That's what Facebook Notes are for, they used them for other Stella updates.

Edit: I see Genuine has now posted the same "announcement" to a Facebook Note.

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:18 pm

ericalm wrote:The EPA's issue with the Stellas is not something that QC would have caught.

Which would seem to indicate the EPA is being anal retentive. If it is unaffected mechanically or "environmentally" (meets clean-air specs), and is up to snuff safety-wise, then there is really no excuse not to pass it, is there?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

BrooktownGeezer · Post by **BrooktownGeezer** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:33 pm

ericalm wrote: The EPA's issue with the Stellas is not something that QC would have caught.

Sorry, but if there's a minor manufacturing variation between the specifications and the production models, and the EPA caught it, a full time QC person can catch it too. I would call that part of the update baloney.

I work with government specifications every day, and there is no mystery to them. Anal retentiveness, yes, but mystery...no. You follow the spec to the T, and everything is okay. You don't and you get your hand slapped. Specifications are written expressly so that someone CAN verify what is being provided.

The rest of the letter seems like what was posted the other day on their website. Good update on the whole.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:12 am

Roose Hurro wrote:
ericalm wrote:The EPA's issue with the Stellas is not something that QC would have caught.
Which would seem to indicate the EPA is being anal retentive. If it is unaffected mechanically or "environmentally" (meets clean-air specs), and is up to snuff safety-wise, then there is really no excuse not to pass it, is there?

As I said earlier, it could be something like a part sourced from another manufacturer which may function exactly the same but wasn't what the EPA had in their records. I don't know if that's what happened, but it's an example of the kind of issue that would not affect emissions or operation but which could still get flagged and would result in the scooters being sent back and another run being produced.

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:38 pm

In an old job I had, (setting up and helping to run a Navy aircrew training facility) we had 15 videodisc players that had trouble interfacing with our computer-based training system. Pioneer (the mfg.) flew a factory tech into Dallas, the dealer drove him out to our facility, and for two days, this little guy did modifications to our players so that it would work with the CBT system. The guy had to tear apart each unit, remove components, re-solder new components in place, test, adjust and reassemble. I know that scooters are larger, but certainly not as complex as a (frickin) laser-beam-equipped videodisc player. I'm at a loss to comprehend why they have to ship these scoots back to India, probably passing a container ship full of almost identical scoots coming the other way (containing scooters with the component changed back to the one as originally specified), especially if the change doesn't have an effect on safety, emissions or performance. This is certainly the definition of insanity, especially when you consider the absolute CRAP scooters that places like Pep Boys have been selling the past few years.

Is there anyone in these regulatory agencies with a shred of common sense? They must admit that this is a preposterous situation, and that it's causing a great deal of unnecessary cost, energy use and pollution (remember that commercial shipping vessels have propulsion power plants that are essentially unregulated in emissions) for essentially nothing. Never mind the stress that it's causing the end users, the dealers, and the importer. That's what is getting me aggravated in this situation

Edit - self grammar police

Post by **illnoise** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:41 pm

BrooktownGeezer wrote:
ericalm wrote: The EPA's issue with the Stellas is not something that QC would have caught.
Sorry, but if there's a minor manufacturing variation between the specifications and the production models, and the EPA caught it, a full time QC person can catch it too. I would call that part of the update baloney.

A full-time QC person and LML's QC people could have known about the change and thought there was no chance it would be an issue, or the Genny QC person could have been reassured by LML's QC people that it wasn't an issue.

Perhaps it was something that was such common practice in the industry that Genuine and other brands had done it before without issues.

the inspectors have clearly ramped up enforcement, so it's not surprising that Genuine was blindsided. Sure, the specs are 'clear' but in any industry, there are loopholes and variances and arguments over certain points of wording, if laws were always entirely clear, there'd be no need for lawyers.

I actually just heard a rumor about EPA mis-enforcement of a 50cc rule that may seriously affect 50cc regulations in the importers' favor, more about that when I get the details, but if it's true, you can see it goes both ways. Laws may be absolute, but enforcement and interpretation is not.

EvilTweety · Post by **EvilTweety** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:58 pm

I still have to ask about the "easily corrected" comment from Genuine in previous announcements. If it is easliy corrected why do they have to ship them back to India? Why can't they correct the "violations" here in the states? I'm also surpised that they did not include the late fall delivery in the consumer annoucement that they included in the dealer announcement. Is this an indication that it may be even later? Perhaps I'm just naive...

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:25 pm

EvilTweety wrote:I still have to ask about the "easily corrected" comment from Genuine in previous announcements. If it is easliy corrected why do they have to ship them back to India? Why can't they correct the "violations" here in the states? I'm also surpised that they did not include the late fall delivery in the consumer annoucement that they included in the dealer announcement. Is this an indication that it may be even later? Perhaps I'm just naive...

If it's something deep within the bowels of the scooter, Genuine may not have the resources to make the change on 500 scooters here. It may be easier, faster and cheaper to send these back to the factory while producing another run to be shipped here.

As far as not specifying a date—damned if you do, damned if you don't.

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:59 pm

I talked to my dealer (who is also a lawyer) about why they wouldn't do the alteration here. Sounds like Customs often requires the change to be done by the manufacturer. What a clever barrier to trade!

Still, it's better than another resolution they sometimes dole out: destroy.

Eric- Do you have a manufacturer's plate on it?

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:42 pm

Nope! Mine is legal, registered & plated in CA. Weird, huh.

Modern Buddy

stella 4t availablity.

stella 4t availablity.

Re: stella 4t availablity.

Re: stella 4t availablity.

Re: stella 4t availablity.

Got this from our dealer yesterday

Re: Got this from our dealer yesterday

Re: Got this from our dealer yesterday

Stella 4T Note from Genuine

Re: Stella 4T Note from Genuine

Re: Stella 4T Note from Genuine

Re: Stella 4T Note from Genuine

Re: Stella 4T Note from Genuine