Scooter Buying, Insurance, Registration, Warrantys

[Lostmycage]

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=137483#137473">What size scooter should I get? 50cc, 110cc, 125cc or 150cc?</a> Coming Soon!

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=137483#137474">How much difference is there between the Buddy 125 and the Buddy 150?</a>

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=137483#137476">Is it okay to haggle or negotiate over the price of a scooter?</a>

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=137483#137478">What's the difference between MSRP and out the door (OTD) price?</a>

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=137483#137479">Before you buy</a> (Coming soon!)

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=137483#137482">Tips for buying a used scooter</a> (Coming Soon!)

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=137483#137483">How do I get the cheapest insurance rates?</a>

<a href="topic13049.html#168345">Buying a vehicle back from an insurance company</a> (Thanks Terrapin!)

<a href="topic13434.html#172848">What to do when hit by a car (their fault.)</a> LisaLisa's excellent summary of what to do when hit by a vehicle on your bike.

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=174434#174434">The Warranty FAQ</a>

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=195072#195072">What's What: Genuine & Scooterworks Divisions</a>

<a href="viewtopic.php?p=213701#213701">Bodge Spotting</a>

[Lostmycage]

What size scooter should I get? 50cc, 110cc, 125cc or 150cc?

Coming Soon! If anyone has some input on this subject, or knows of a well written post, please direct me to it so I can finish this section up!

Thanks,
LMC

[Lostmycage]

How much difference is there between the Buddy 125 and the Buddy 150?

There is absolutely no difference in size between the 125cc and the 150cc.

The Stock 150cc will have better acceleration than the Stock 125cc. It's not night and day, but it's enough to notice.

The 150cc has the Stebel Nautilus horn (139db) where the 125cc has the Stebel Magnum horn (136db).

The 150cc has an external in oil cooler where the 125cc does not.

The other main differences are the paint schemes. The 150cc Buddies have the "International" color schemes and the new Blackjack.

The Blackjack has a number of additional accessories already included: Prima Exhaust, NCY front forks, NCY Big Disk Rotors, NCY rear adjustable shock and the specially contoured "one person" seat.

Technical junk:
Bore/Stroke:

[Lostmycage]

Is it okay to haggle or negotiate over the price of a scooter?

You can try, but don't push it. To be perfectly honest, most scooter shop sales people won't have the authority to negotiate on the price.

The reason for this is that with scooters, the margin of profit is extremely thin. The official numbers for Genuine aren't made public, but it's widely believed to be less that 10% for each scooter. That's not a lot of money coming in for the shop. It may seem like there's a ton of scooters flying around your city, but you have to keep in mind that the small scooter shop has to pay rent, payroll, stock resupply orders, and they have to buy the bikes that they're selling. It's a thin margin at less than 10% for a $2000-$3500 scooter (that's $200-$350 per scooter at 10%).

If you're looking for a deal, the place where they're going to have the most wiggle room is their gear and accessories. I wouldn't push it too much, and it's pretty much useless from Spring till Fall, because most shops aren't going to be hurting to sell a scooter. But, if you're looking for a deal, the gear and accessories are where you'll find them. See if a free helmet (one that you'll actually wear) a pair of gloves, a rack or maybe a cover.

Again, it's dependent on if they really need to sell a scooter to you, and to be perfectly honest, it depends on what kind of impression you've left on them. Scooter people are generally friendly. If you come in acting like a hard-ass... you're not going to bully them into a sale. Chances are you'll get mocked for being a jackass.

Don't expect to haggle, wheel-n-deal, or "get away with murder". There's just not enough overhead for that to even be an option. There's no harm in asking though. They do understand that this is a rather sizable purchase and if they have room to work with you (and you haven't been the previously mentioned jackass) they will.

[Lostmycage]

What's the difference between MSRP and out the door (OTD) price?

MSRP stands for "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price" and it's just that. No one has to stick to the price (above or below) but to be competitive, most shops will list the scooter at or under the MSRP.

The Out the Door (OTD) price is the cost that it will take to drive a scooter home. There are usually a few hundred tacked onto the price of the scooter in various fees and taxes. Here's a breif break down of the common ones.

Title: The cost to have the vehicle titled in the state that it's sold. If you think they're charging too much, check with your DMV to find out the cost.

Set-up/inspection: Scooters come in boxes and are shipped in varying stages of completeness. They have to be put together, have the engine started and inspected. This isn't a freebie, they aren't scamming you. The time it takes averages out to what they assess as the cost (which is what they charge you). Sometime a scooter runs right out of the box, sometimes there's anomalies that have to be tracked down.

Tags: If they're charging for tags, you should have them when you ride out the door. This cost can be verified with DMV.

State Inspection: Every state has different legislation regarding motorcycle inspections. If they're charging you for it, the cost can be verified though your DMV.

Sales Tax: Each state is different and it's unavoidable on a new vehicle purchase. This one alone can be a few hundred dollar chunk of the OTD price.

Typically, the OTD price will run about $300-$600 more than the MSRP, depending on the scooter, the state and the time of year.

[Lostmycage]

Before you buy

Coming Soon! If anyone has some input on this subject, or knows of a well written post, please direct me to it so I can finish this section up!

Thanks,
LMC

[Lostmycage]

Tips for buying a used scooter

Coming Soon! If anyone has some input on this subject, or knows of a well written post, please direct me to it so I can finish this section up!

Thanks,
LMC

[Lostmycage]

How do I get the cheapest insurance rates?

<a href="http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-insurance">From ModernVespa</a> with permission and originally written by Ericalm.


Overview
New owners (and those frustrated with their rates) frequently ask what others are paying for insurance and who their insurers are. Unfortunately, this information is of limited usefulness as rates are rarely comparable between different riders. In addition to the types of coverage you choose, insurers use a variety of criteria when calculating rates: age, location, riding experience, driving history, model of scooter, licensing and more. People often find that they'll get wildly different quotes than others from the same insurers. The variation is so great that it may seem arbitrary, but there are dozens of variables involved and insurers don't provide specifics for how they arrive at their quotes. Even worse, quotes from different companies for seemingly comparable insurance for the same person can vary by hundreds of dollars.

Most states require a minimum of liability insurance for scooters over 50cc. Check your state vehicle codes to be sure you have the appropriate requisite coverage.

Definitions
Please note that these are generic definitions and that the specific amount of coverage and limitations depend on your insurer and the specifics of your quote or policy. These definitions are intended to provide only a broad overview.

Major Types of Coverage
Liability: Bodily Injury Liability (BI) and Property Damage Liability (PD) cover injury and damages to others when the insured is responsible for an accident, but do not cover the insured. (So, if you hit a car, that car and its occupants are covered, you are not.)
Collision: Provides coverage to the insured's vehicle in the event of a crash or collision with an object or other vehicle.
Comprehensive: Provides coverage for damage or loss of vehicle due to causes other than an accident: weather, fire, theft, etc.
Additional Coverage
Personal Injury: Covers insured's medical expenses incurred from an accident.
Roadside Assistance: Towing and other services (jumping battery, etc.)
Uninsured Motorist/Underinsured Motorist: Provides coverage for injuries and damages incurred by the insured when the liable party either does not have insurance or has insufficient coverage to pay for all resulting expenses.
"Gap" coverage/gap insurance: Should your vehicle need replacement (stolen, totaled), most policies will pay you the depreciated value of the scooter based on age, condition and mileage. This is intended to be approximately the cost of purchasing one as close to the insured vehicle as possible. Rarely will this equal the cost of a new scooter. Gap coverage is extra insurance that covers the difference between the depreciated value and the cost of a brand new replacement of the same model.

Etc.
Deductible: Out of pocket expenses paid by the insured when making a claim. Higher deductibles usually mean lower premiums.
Premium: The cost of an insurance policy. What the insured pays the insurer for coverage.


Tips
There are some ways to get better rates, though, if you're willing to do some footwork. The first step is to decide what types of coverage you want or need. When making your choices, consider the following:


* What kind of premiums can you afford?
* How much deductible can you afford to pay out of pocket in the event of an accident? Higher deductibles can lower your premiums but are useless if you can't afford them.
* What's the replacement cost for your scooter? For some owners, comprehensive may make sense for a GTV (high replacement cost) but not a lower-priced Piaggio Fly.
* Do you have other types of insurance (health, home, renter's) which may cover you or your scooter in the event of an accident, theft from your home, natural disaster, etc.?

Work the phone or visit a local office. Online shopping is great and for many things it's the best way to get the lowest price. This isn't the case for insurance. In general, it pays to work the phone and speak to actual agents or salespeople who can work with you to lower your rates.

If you have home or car insurance, try those companies first. Many offer discounts for multiple policies.

Cast a wide net. It pays to gather quotes from variety of companies, both the big, well-known companies such as Geico and Progressive as well as smaller companies. Despite the commercials, the large companies don't always offer the best rates. In fact, they're often not the ones actually providing the coverage, but are acting as brokers for other companies (many companies don't offer motorcycle coverage in all regions and may sell you a policy with another company—without telling you).

Inquire about discounts. They may be available, but an agent isn't necessarily going to throw them at you. Companies frequently offer discounts to AMA members and for completion of the MSF class.

[ericalm]

Warranty Basics

All owners should read their warranty at the time of purchase. The dealer will have the certificate available for you. If, for whatever reason, you don't get it, don't fret. You are covered by the warranty and roadside assistance as soon as you take possession of a new scooter.

If you have questions about your warranty, ask your dealer. They are the ones who will be filing any potential claims with Genuine. We are not legal experts, so some of the information we're offering here may be affected by the complex differences in state warranty laws and regulations. This is offered as a general guide and as advice based on the best of our knowledge and experiences of owners.

Fortunately, the warranty from "America's Smallest Scooter Company" is light on the legalese. Unfortunately, this leaves some ambiguity in there and it may sometimes seem confusing or contradictory.

<a href="http://www.modernbuddy.com/pix/warranty1.jpg">Warranty: front</a>
<a href="http://www.modernbuddy.com/pix/warranty2.jpg">Warranty: back</a>

What's covered by the warranty?
The warranty only covers defects in materials and workmanship. This does not include scheduled maintenance or parts which normally wear out such as batteries, belts, tires, rollers and so on.

I have not received my warranty card. Am I covered?
Yes. Your warranty and the roadside assistance plan are active the moment you take possession of your scooter from your dealer whether or not you have any paper documentation.

I am selling or buying a used Genuine Scooter. Does the warranty transfer?
According to Genuine, it does not.

Does the first scheduled maintenance need to be done by a dealer?
According to the warranty, yes. It doesn't have to be the shop where you purchased your scooter as long as it's an authorized Genuine Scooters dealer.

Some owners have claimed that a company cannot force you to go to an authorized dealer for service in order to keep the warranty. Our recommendation is to go to a dealer. This first maintenance is more than a simple oil change and is very important to the long-term health of your scooter.

What about DIY maintenance?
You can do your own maintenance and repairs after the first dealer maintenance. Keep in mind, though, that any issue which can be traced back to improper workmanship or parts installation will not be covered. So if the oil filter you replaced spins off and you kill your engine, that's on you.

Are accessories like racks, windshields and top cases covered?
They are not covered by the Genuine warranty for your scooter. These may be covered by their own warranties, though. In the past, owners have been able to get these types of accessories replaced by the dealer if they failed.


Upgrades, Modifications and Your Warranty

Non-OEM parts will not be covered under your scooter's warranty. Installation may effect how your warranty applies to other parts of the scooter.

The general rule is that if you install a modification, you can not file a warranty claim on the modified parts or for failure of a related system if the cause of the failure can be attributed to the modification. That's still pretty broad, especially in cases where the modification may or may not have contributed. Essentially, you don't want to be in a position to prove it was not responsible.

For example, changes you make to the electrical system (adding lighting, hard wiring a GPS) will not void the warranty on your engine or transmission. But it could possibly result in problems with your stator or your ignition. Similarly, a cylinder kit will not void the warranty on your electrical system.

However, should you install a performance variator (part of your transmission) and have the clutch (another part of your transmission) fail, you may not be covered.

How Warranty Claims are Filed

Your dealer will diagnose the problem and make an initial determination of whether the issue is covered. This is one more reason it's good to be on positive terms with your dealer. They will then submit the claim to Genuine, which will approve or disapprove based on whether they feel the claim is covered and valid. We have never had a report on the forum of Genuine not honoring a valid warranty claim.

Depending on your issue, diagnosing the problem can sometimes take time. The dealer needs to properly diagnose the problem and attempt to rule out factors other than defect which may have been the cause. There is occasionally a delay due to communications between the dealer and Genuine to determine precise cause and whether it's covered.

[ericalm]

As most of us already know, Genuine and Scooterworks companies are related and have the same ownership. The parts are fairly independent, though, and operate as individual units. Think of it as the branches of the US Government. We have one President, but the Executive, Judicial and Legislative are separate entities. If you were to ask a Supreme Court Justice when a House appropriations bill was going to pass or what riders it contained, they would be unlikely to know.

While the parts of the company share some resources, it would probably do no good to try to ask someone at Scooterworks USA when a certain model will be available or someone from Genuine about availability of a part in the online store.

So, for your convenience, a brief guide to the separate divisions.

Genuine Scooters: Genuine is the company behind the scooters. They partner with manufacturers overseas to design, import and distribute various models within the US. They maintain dealer relations, support dealers and back warranties. Anything regarding the import and distribution of scooters, warranties and similar functions and policies is under Genuine's domain.

Also under the Genuine banner is the parts department, supplying dealers with items for their line of scooters. If you need a headlight bezel, speedometer, body panel, whatever, this is best ordered through your dealer, who will place the order with Genuine's parts department.

Scooterworks USA/Scooterworks.com: This is the branch that's most commonly just called "Scooterworks." They are a retailer of parts and accessories for a wide range of modern and vintage scooters.

Scooterworks Chicago: Scooterworks Chicago is a dealer, just like your dealer or any other in the country. They sell new Genuine, SYM, Kymco and Vectrix scooters as well as some fine used models as well.

Scooterworks Direct: For forum members, this is probably the least known division of Genuine/Scooterworks. Scooterworks Direct is a wholesale unit that provides aftermarket and vintage parts and accessories to retail shops and dealers around the country. They're in a completely different location from Scooterworks Chicago and are closed to the public.

When your dealer says they've "ordered a part from Scooterworks," they're talking about Scooterworks Direct. When dealers order Genuine parts, however, they come direct from the Genuine parts department.

[Lostmycage]

Bodge Spotting

• If you're thinking about going for a classic shifty, do yourself a HUGE favor and read through the below links. (Thanks Ericalm for listing these in this thread)

A bodge is a bike thats been poorly rebuilt and is generally extremely unsafe.

Usually these are reconstructed in Vietnam and will be several frames welded together, the motor will have parts of coffee cans used for gaskets and often bits of wire and random screws holding things on that should be much more securely attached.

There's at least 2 signs that I can see on this bike. First off is the yellow kickstand boots. These are basically only made in Vietnam and you never see them on a bike that's never been outside the states.

The second is that this is a Vespa Super. It SHOULD have 8" wheels on it, this one has 10" wheels on it and they're sitting fairly far out of the fender.

This is also a common mod. To weld the end of a 10" fork onto the 8" fork so they can mount the larger wheel.[/quote]
Also, the paint and accessories. As weird as this sounds, bodges are tarted up on the outside to look really good. So there will often be a non-original paint color, lots of chrome and accessories and non-OEM seats, etc. Just like this one has! The poorly-cast wings on the legshield are another telltale sign.

Rover Eric wrote a pretty good bodgespotting guide here:
http://www.rovers-usa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1938

ModernVespa Bodgespotting thread:
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic70412

Bar Italia's Bodge Guide:
http://www.baritaliaclassics.com/Site/Vietbodge.html

And:
http://www.scooterlounge.com/Vespa/Asian/Asian.shtml
http://www.thevespawizard.com.au/the_black_vbb.htm