Oficial crazy 175cc kit thread
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- Kaos
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Oficial crazy 175cc kit thread
Sorry for the delay folks, works been crazy.
This is the oficial thread for
the 175cc kit.
This kit will take a 125cc Buddy to 175cc.
It contains the following parts:
Cylinder
Piston
Rings
Wrist pin and pin clips
gaskets
I have NOT personally tested this part yet, but
have spoken personally to several people who have installed it
on Bubu's and at least 1 export Buddy.
These kits are at your own risk with no garantee!!
I'm going to buy and install one too in the first batch so at that point we'll
have 100% proof if they work, but I'm confidant that they'll work based on the conversations I've had.
The more people order them, the cheaper I can get them.
The current price is: $180
Currently the following people have said they want to order kits:
Orange Guy
kmtscoot
rajron
This is the oficial thread for
the 175cc kit.
This kit will take a 125cc Buddy to 175cc.
It contains the following parts:
Cylinder
Piston
Rings
Wrist pin and pin clips
gaskets
I have NOT personally tested this part yet, but
have spoken personally to several people who have installed it
on Bubu's and at least 1 export Buddy.
These kits are at your own risk with no garantee!!
I'm going to buy and install one too in the first batch so at that point we'll
have 100% proof if they work, but I'm confidant that they'll work based on the conversations I've had.
The more people order them, the cheaper I can get them.
The current price is: $180
Currently the following people have said they want to order kits:
Orange Guy
kmtscoot
rajron
- MikieTaps
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- Kaos
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Ok, so I ran the math on it, the manufacturer calls it a 175cc kit, but its a 60mm kit, which with our 60mm cranks it actually comes out to 169.71cc, so its apparently really a 170cc kit. :/bikebuda wrote:I have a question
175cc out of the stock buddy crank would mean you would be at a 61mm piston kit .
the stock case has a cylinder hole of 61mm
so how big would need to machine the stock case out to
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- Lostmycage
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How thick is the sleeve?
If the 125cc engine has a 61mm case opening and the bore is 60mm... That means .5mm (I grill with aluminum foil close to that thickness) for the cylinder walls. Something's off! I know Kaos is good for his word, but the numbers seem off... I'd push the supply for some harder measurements and make sure that they know which case the kits are designed for.
I'd push really hard for a sample first. If it proves compatible, they'd more than make up the cost of the sample kit. I don't know if that's an angle you can use, Kaos... worth a shot?
Oh, and I REALLY want a kit for the Blur, lol. Thing about that is that I havent' measured the case opening myself, but from 2 different sources I've gotten two different answers... both people that I trust know what they're doing. One said 63mm the other said 65mm.
Damn this tuning Voodoo!
If the 125cc engine has a 61mm case opening and the bore is 60mm... That means .5mm (I grill with aluminum foil close to that thickness) for the cylinder walls. Something's off! I know Kaos is good for his word, but the numbers seem off... I'd push the supply for some harder measurements and make sure that they know which case the kits are designed for.
I'd push really hard for a sample first. If it proves compatible, they'd more than make up the cost of the sample kit. I don't know if that's an angle you can use, Kaos... worth a shot?
Oh, and I REALLY want a kit for the Blur, lol. Thing about that is that I havent' measured the case opening myself, but from 2 different sources I've gotten two different answers... both people that I trust know what they're doing. One said 63mm the other said 65mm.
Damn this tuning Voodoo!
Check out Scoot Richmond's new site: My awesome local shop.
- Kaos
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Hmm, thats a good call Lostmycage. Leme pop off another email.Lostmycage wrote:How thick is the sleeve?
If the 125cc engine has a 61mm case opening and the bore is 60mm... That means .5mm (I grill with aluminum foil close to that thickness) for the cylinder walls. Something's off! I know Kaos is good for his word, but the numbers seem off... I'd push the supply for some harder measurements and make sure that they know which case the kits are designed for.
I'd push really hard for a sample first. If it proves compatible, they'd more than make up the cost of the sample kit. I don't know if that's an angle you can use, Kaos... worth a shot?
Oh, and I REALLY want a kit for the Blur, lol. Thing about that is that I havent' measured the case opening myself, but from 2 different sources I've gotten two different answers... both people that I trust know what they're doing. One said 63mm the other said 65mm.
Damn this tuning Voodoo!
- Lostmycage
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At the very least, they can send a gasket from the kit. That should give you a good indication of weather or not the case needs machining. Usually when a kit needs the case bored, they use the accompanying gasket as the template.
In a lot of places where our type of engine is more common, boring the case out isn't a big deal at all. There's tons of shops that do it pretty much every day. Here in the states, these GY6-type engines are rarer and shops that have worked on them are rarer still; so machining the case (although a relatively simple task compared to multi cylinder engines) is harder to do without experience.
The reason I say that is that lots of the people I've talked to about a BigBore kit have told me that "I'll fit right in" but after pressing for more info/hard measurements there's always some "slight" machining that needs to be done. At least for anything that would increase the displacement enough to warrant the cost and work. There's a chance that they're not even considering a slight case boring as any significant work because of how common it is where these kits originate from.
I'm not trying to kill the deal; I really want to see the States come out of the scootering dark ages. I'm just a stickler for complete disclosure.
If they fit right and are a true bolt in kit, then hell yeah!
In a lot of places where our type of engine is more common, boring the case out isn't a big deal at all. There's tons of shops that do it pretty much every day. Here in the states, these GY6-type engines are rarer and shops that have worked on them are rarer still; so machining the case (although a relatively simple task compared to multi cylinder engines) is harder to do without experience.
The reason I say that is that lots of the people I've talked to about a BigBore kit have told me that "I'll fit right in" but after pressing for more info/hard measurements there's always some "slight" machining that needs to be done. At least for anything that would increase the displacement enough to warrant the cost and work. There's a chance that they're not even considering a slight case boring as any significant work because of how common it is where these kits originate from.
I'm not trying to kill the deal; I really want to see the States come out of the scootering dark ages. I'm just a stickler for complete disclosure.
If they fit right and are a true bolt in kit, then hell yeah!
Check out Scoot Richmond's new site: My awesome local shop.
- Kaos
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Lostmycage wrote:At the very least, they can send a gasket from the kit. That should give you a good indication of weather or not the case needs machining. Usually when a kit needs the case bored, they use the accompanying gasket as the template.
In a lot of places where our type of engine is more common, boring the case out isn't a big deal at all. There's tons of shops that do it pretty much every day. Here in the states, these GY6-type engines are rarer and shops that have worked on them are rarer still; so machining the case (although a relatively simple task compared to multi cylinder engines) is harder to do without experience.
The reason I say that is that lots of the people I've talked to about a BigBore kit have told me that "I'll fit right in" but after pressing for more info/hard measurements there's always some "slight" machining that needs to be done. At least for anything that would increase the displacement enough to warrant the cost and work. There's a chance that they're not even considering a slight case boring as any significant work because of how common it is where these kits originate from.
I'm not trying to kill the deal; I really want to see the States come out of the scootering dark ages. I'm just a stickler for complete disclosure.
If they fit right and are a true bolt in kit, then hell yeah!
No, I agree completely. Boring a case is no big deal. I've bored out over 100 V8's in cars, but if it DOES need bored, I want to know ahead of time, so I can let all of you know.
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Ok, he SAYS no bore required. 60mm and he won't send me a sample
As soon as I get my exhaust sorted, and get a bit of spare cash I'm going to get one to demo,
I'm kinda curious if this is the same manufacturer that the rumored Scooterworks kit is from. If not, It'd be interesting to compare them if and or when it comes out.
As soon as I get my exhaust sorted, and get a bit of spare cash I'm going to get one to demo,
I'm kinda curious if this is the same manufacturer that the rumored Scooterworks kit is from. If not, It'd be interesting to compare them if and or when it comes out.
- StL_Stadtroller
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just a wild guess... but it could be a smaller wrist-pin to piston deck dimension giving you the greater swept volume displacement... but then that would give you shite for compression ratio.. so I dunno..
speaking of CR - don't forget to factor in the head chamber volume to the displacement!
speaking of CR - don't forget to factor in the head chamber volume to the displacement!
Brian Wittling
Mishifts SC, St. Louis MO
<a href="http://www.fuelly.com/driver/stadtroller/buddy-125" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.fuelly.com/driver/stadtrolle ... /sig-image" width="500" height="63" border="0"/></a>
Mishifts SC, St. Louis MO
<a href="http://www.fuelly.com/driver/stadtroller/buddy-125" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.fuelly.com/driver/stadtrolle ... /sig-image" width="500" height="63" border="0"/></a>
- Kaos
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Yeah, that could factor into displacement, but I don't think it does in this case.StL_Stadtroller wrote:just a wild guess... but it could be a smaller wrist-pin to piston deck dimension giving you the greater swept volume displacement... but then that would give you shite for compression ratio.. so I dunno..
speaking of CR - don't forget to factor in the head chamber volume to the displacement!
Head volume doesn't effect displacement, only compression ratio. Unless your piston is SERIOUSLY positive deck height, which wouldn't be workable anyway.
- djelliott
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So sounds like it's a go, huh? Is this the same guy? I'm getting excited.Kaos wrote:Ok, he SAYS no bore required. 60mm and he won't send me a sample
As soon as I get my exhaust sorted, and get a bit of spare cash I'm going to get one to demo,
I'm kinda curious if this is the same manufacturer that the rumored Scooterworks kit is from. If not, It'd be interesting to compare them if and or when it comes out.
Prima pipe
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve
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Kaos wrote:They're being sold in Taiwan, I just managed to find someone who spoke enough English to answer questions ship them to mer0sa wrote:so where are these kits being sold at?
are you making them from scratch kaos?
HAHA NICE! all u gotta do is sweet talk them crazy people
i would want one but then again would be afraid of the consequences...if there are any
- Kaos
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Well, I hit 88MPH and nearly went back to the future, but thats the only cosequence I know ofr0sa wrote:Kaos wrote:They're being sold in Taiwan, I just managed to find someone who spoke enough English to answer questions ship them to mer0sa wrote:so where are these kits being sold at?
are you making them from scratch kaos?
HAHA NICE! all u gotta do is sweet talk them crazy people
i would want one but then again would be afraid of the consequences...if there are any
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So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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If it's any sort of solicitation that leads to an exchange of money or goods, it should go in the For Sale section.r0sa wrote:i believe both sir, is that against the rules?ericalm wrote:So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
- djelliott
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This one looks like it's more for info. When kaos gets a tested kit it'll be more like a sales thread.ericalm wrote:If it's any sort of solicitation that leads to an exchange of money or goods, it should go in the For Sale section.r0sa wrote:i believe both sir, is that against the rules?ericalm wrote:So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
Prima pipe
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve
- Kaos
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Yeah, at this point its basically informative. If I get to the point of selling it, I'll either ask to move it to for sale, or start a new one.ericalm wrote:If it's any sort of solicitation that leads to an exchange of money or goods, it should go in the For Sale section.r0sa wrote:i believe both sir, is that against the rules?ericalm wrote:So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
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Nope, stock crank. Brakes are up to you I think the stock brakes stop awesome, but you may not agree.gearhead wrote:good thing there is no boring required. that's a pain in the ass. how much is the first batch? with this kit, do you need an aftermarket crank / brakes? im willing to put the kit on if i can get my hands on one
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- monza
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um, is the stock carb up to supplying ~50cc more of cylinder volume? I say this not knowing what the Buddy has for a carb, but in my experience, stock carbs are barely capable of feeding larger displacement cylinders than they were originally intended for, even when jetted up...
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63 VNB "125 Super"
62 Mini Cooper 1100
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Stock carb is a 24mm CVK. That's for both a 125 and a 150 Buddy. It'll handle the larger displacement (because it's a CVK) but you'll get more power out of a larger (28mm-30mm) carb. You'd absolutely need to retune the carb with this kit, though.
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ok, I wouldnt have guessed it to be that large. Most of the time they stick a little 19mm on the 125s...and then they also use some wierd ass carbs like Guertner, Walbro, or other odd ball thats hard to get Jets and needles for.Lostmycage wrote:Stock carb is a 24mm CVK. That's for both a 125 and a 150 Buddy. It'll handle the larger displacement (because it's a CVK) but you'll get more power out of a larger (28mm-30mm) carb. You'd absolutely need to retune the carb with this kit, though.
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Nope, they're 24mm Mikuni CVK carbs. They're actually really nice carbs for stock.monza wrote:ok, I wouldnt have guessed it to be that large. Most of the time they stick a little 19mm on the 125s...and then they also use some wierd ass carbs like Guertner, Walbro, or other odd ball thats hard to get Jets and needles for.Lostmycage wrote:Stock carb is a 24mm CVK. That's for both a 125 and a 150 Buddy. It'll handle the larger displacement (because it's a CVK) but you'll get more power out of a larger (28mm-30mm) carb. You'd absolutely need to retune the carb with this kit, though.
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I think a blower would be easier to install.gearhead wrote:after the 175cc kit, lets do a turbo install
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Squirrels, of course.
Or a modified retainer nut that incorporates a 35mm pulley on the variator end of the crankshaft... not that I've CADed it out or anything...
The blower (think very small) would be mounted where the airbox is now, and it's mounting points would be elongated CVT cover bolts; possibly/probably spanning over the rear fender and sharing a mounting point with the top exhaust hanger on the Buddy or the swing arm on the Blur.
The air filter would be more of an inline filter cartridge type with a roughly 50mm drive pulley running the blower. The belt size used would depend on the fit of the blower mechanism in relation to the CVT/swing arm.
The advantage would be less heat exchange to worry about with a turbo (in such a small engine) and the PSI would be directly proportional to the engine speed. Bonus points for a (you're going to love this) clutch system simular to the one in the CVT for the blower engagement/actuation.
Again, it's not like I've given this any thought. Squirrels really would be easier, but not as resistant to heat.
Anyone know where to get some heavy duty squirrels?
Or a modified retainer nut that incorporates a 35mm pulley on the variator end of the crankshaft... not that I've CADed it out or anything...
The blower (think very small) would be mounted where the airbox is now, and it's mounting points would be elongated CVT cover bolts; possibly/probably spanning over the rear fender and sharing a mounting point with the top exhaust hanger on the Buddy or the swing arm on the Blur.
The air filter would be more of an inline filter cartridge type with a roughly 50mm drive pulley running the blower. The belt size used would depend on the fit of the blower mechanism in relation to the CVT/swing arm.
The advantage would be less heat exchange to worry about with a turbo (in such a small engine) and the PSI would be directly proportional to the engine speed. Bonus points for a (you're going to love this) clutch system simular to the one in the CVT for the blower engagement/actuation.
Again, it's not like I've given this any thought. Squirrels really would be easier, but not as resistant to heat.
Anyone know where to get some heavy duty squirrels?
Check out Scoot Richmond's new site: My awesome local shop.
- Buddy_wannabe
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...... sooooooooo if we got all 3985 members to order one ...... would we get the kit and some cash to boot??Kaos wrote:15 people would be $155r0sa wrote:r0sa wrote:one question:
so let's say if 13+ people buy these kits, would it be cheaper than $160?
just curious
my question was never answered
17 people would be $150
19 people would be $145
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I think it stops counting at 38, I'd say, you wouldn't end up with them paying you for buying it, but by my calculations 38 kits is the magic number here... I'm definitely in for kit #38 - which is silly 'cause I don't have a 125 engine.Buddy_wannabe wrote:...... sooooooooo if we got all 3985 members to order one ...... would we get the kit and some cash to boot??Kaos wrote:15 people would be $155r0sa wrote:
my question was never answered
17 people would be $150
19 people would be $145
Last edited by Lostmycage on Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Check out Scoot Richmond's new site: My awesome local shop.
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you can use stock ones, but it's just more fun to use a hotter one (and springs to keep the valves closed).
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What fun is that? If I'm tearing into it, I'm tearing into itKaos wrote:The cam will add about $120 to the kit, my springs were 1 off customs, but I'll see what the cost will be to fabricate some more.ScooterTrash wrote:Can you add the cam and springs to the kit?
You can use the stock ones though.
Why is the cam almost as much as the kit?
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Heh, because thats what they charge me for it. I've actually gotten the same cam cheaper from another distributor before. Leme see if I can still get that price. It would be a big price drop if I can.ScooterTrash wrote:What fun is that? If I'm tearing into it, I'm tearing into itKaos wrote:The cam will add about $120 to the kit, my springs were 1 off customs, but I'll see what the cost will be to fabricate some more.ScooterTrash wrote:Can you add the cam and springs to the kit?
You can use the stock ones though.
Why is the cam almost as much as the kit?
- djelliott
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I just ordered the cam. Can't wait 'til it shows up. With the extra air and fuel I'm dumping in there the cam should be significant.
DJE
DJE
Prima pipe
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve