Oficial crazy 175cc kit thread

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Kaos
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Oficial crazy 175cc kit thread

Post by Kaos »

Sorry for the delay folks, works been crazy.
This is the oficial thread for
the 175cc kit.

This kit will take a 125cc Buddy to 175cc.
It contains the following parts:

Cylinder
Piston
Rings
Wrist pin and pin clips
gaskets

I have NOT personally tested this part yet, but
have spoken personally to several people who have installed it
on Bubu's and at least 1 export Buddy.

These kits are at your own risk with no garantee!!

I'm going to buy and install one too in the first batch so at that point we'll
have 100% proof if they work, but I'm confidant that they'll work based on the conversations I've had.

The more people order them, the cheaper I can get them.

The current price is: $180

Currently the following people have said they want to order kits:

Orange Guy
kmtscoot
rajron
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Post by MikieTaps »

man... i wish I was keeping my buddy...

maybe if I can find a deal on a beat-up used one this winter.. ill have a winter project to work on :twisted:
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Post by bikebuda »

I have a question

175cc out of the stock buddy crank would mean you would be at a 61mm piston kit .

the stock case has a cylinder hole of 61mm

so how big would need to machine the stock case out to
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Post by Kaos »

bikebuda wrote:I have a question

175cc out of the stock buddy crank would mean you would be at a 61mm piston kit .

the stock case has a cylinder hole of 61mm

so how big would need to machine the stock case out to
Ok, so I ran the math on it, the manufacturer calls it a 175cc kit, but its a 60mm kit, which with our 60mm cranks it actually comes out to 169.71cc, so its apparently really a 170cc kit. :/
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Post by KRUSTYburger »

well, $180 is pretty inexpensive as far as I can tell, but I have no idea what's involved
in installation... how difficult would you say it is from 1 to 10 (for a relative noob)?
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Post by Kaos »

KRUSTYburger wrote:well, $180 is pretty inexpensive as far as I can tell, but I have no idea what's involved
in installation... how difficult would you say it is from 1 to 10 (for a relative noob)?
For a noob? I'd rate it about an 8 or 9. Its basically rebuilding about 1/2 your engine :)
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Post by KRUSTYburger »

haha, ok thanks.
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Post by Lostmycage »

How thick is the sleeve?

If the 125cc engine has a 61mm case opening and the bore is 60mm... That means .5mm (I grill with aluminum foil close to that thickness) for the cylinder walls. Something's off! I know Kaos is good for his word, but the numbers seem off... I'd push the supply for some harder measurements and make sure that they know which case the kits are designed for.

I'd push really hard for a sample first. If it proves compatible, they'd more than make up the cost of the sample kit. I don't know if that's an angle you can use, Kaos... worth a shot?

Oh, and I REALLY want a kit for the Blur, lol. Thing about that is that I havent' measured the case opening myself, but from 2 different sources I've gotten two different answers... both people that I trust know what they're doing. One said 63mm the other said 65mm.

Damn this tuning Voodoo!
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Post by Kaos »

Lostmycage wrote:How thick is the sleeve?

If the 125cc engine has a 61mm case opening and the bore is 60mm... That means .5mm (I grill with aluminum foil close to that thickness) for the cylinder walls. Something's off! I know Kaos is good for his word, but the numbers seem off... I'd push the supply for some harder measurements and make sure that they know which case the kits are designed for.

I'd push really hard for a sample first. If it proves compatible, they'd more than make up the cost of the sample kit. I don't know if that's an angle you can use, Kaos... worth a shot?

Oh, and I REALLY want a kit for the Blur, lol. Thing about that is that I havent' measured the case opening myself, but from 2 different sources I've gotten two different answers... both people that I trust know what they're doing. One said 63mm the other said 65mm.

Damn this tuning Voodoo!
Hmm, thats a good call Lostmycage. Leme pop off another email.
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Post by Lostmycage »

At the very least, they can send a gasket from the kit. That should give you a good indication of weather or not the case needs machining. Usually when a kit needs the case bored, they use the accompanying gasket as the template.

In a lot of places where our type of engine is more common, boring the case out isn't a big deal at all. There's tons of shops that do it pretty much every day. Here in the states, these GY6-type engines are rarer and shops that have worked on them are rarer still; so machining the case (although a relatively simple task compared to multi cylinder engines) is harder to do without experience.

The reason I say that is that lots of the people I've talked to about a BigBore kit have told me that "I'll fit right in" but after pressing for more info/hard measurements there's always some "slight" machining that needs to be done. At least for anything that would increase the displacement enough to warrant the cost and work. There's a chance that they're not even considering a slight case boring as any significant work because of how common it is where these kits originate from.

I'm not trying to kill the deal; I really want to see the States come out of the scootering dark ages. I'm just a stickler for complete disclosure.

If they fit right and are a true bolt in kit, then hell yeah!
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Post by Kaos »

Lostmycage wrote:At the very least, they can send a gasket from the kit. That should give you a good indication of weather or not the case needs machining. Usually when a kit needs the case bored, they use the accompanying gasket as the template.

In a lot of places where our type of engine is more common, boring the case out isn't a big deal at all. There's tons of shops that do it pretty much every day. Here in the states, these GY6-type engines are rarer and shops that have worked on them are rarer still; so machining the case (although a relatively simple task compared to multi cylinder engines) is harder to do without experience.

The reason I say that is that lots of the people I've talked to about a BigBore kit have told me that "I'll fit right in" but after pressing for more info/hard measurements there's always some "slight" machining that needs to be done. At least for anything that would increase the displacement enough to warrant the cost and work. There's a chance that they're not even considering a slight case boring as any significant work because of how common it is where these kits originate from.

I'm not trying to kill the deal; I really want to see the States come out of the scootering dark ages. I'm just a stickler for complete disclosure.

If they fit right and are a true bolt in kit, then hell yeah!

No, I agree completely. Boring a case is no big deal. I've bored out over 100 V8's in cars, but if it DOES need bored, I want to know ahead of time, so I can let all of you know. :)
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Post by Kaos »

Ok, he SAYS no bore required. 60mm and he won't send me a sample :P
As soon as I get my exhaust sorted, and get a bit of spare cash I'm going to get one to demo,

I'm kinda curious if this is the same manufacturer that the rumored Scooterworks kit is from. If not, It'd be interesting to compare them if and or when it comes out.
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Post by StL_Stadtroller »

just a wild guess... but it could be a smaller wrist-pin to piston deck dimension giving you the greater swept volume displacement... but then that would give you shite for compression ratio.. so I dunno..

speaking of CR - don't forget to factor in the head chamber volume to the displacement!
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Post by Kaos »

StL_Stadtroller wrote:just a wild guess... but it could be a smaller wrist-pin to piston deck dimension giving you the greater swept volume displacement... but then that would give you shite for compression ratio.. so I dunno..

speaking of CR - don't forget to factor in the head chamber volume to the displacement!
Yeah, that could factor into displacement, but I don't think it does in this case.

Head volume doesn't effect displacement, only compression ratio. Unless your piston is SERIOUSLY positive deck height, which wouldn't be workable anyway.
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Post by r0sa »

so where are these kits being sold at?

are you making them from scratch kaos?
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Post by djelliott »

Kaos wrote:Ok, he SAYS no bore required. 60mm and he won't send me a sample :P
As soon as I get my exhaust sorted, and get a bit of spare cash I'm going to get one to demo,

I'm kinda curious if this is the same manufacturer that the rumored Scooterworks kit is from. If not, It'd be interesting to compare them if and or when it comes out.
So sounds like it's a go, huh? Is this the same guy? I'm getting excited.
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Post by Kaos »

r0sa wrote:so where are these kits being sold at?

are you making them from scratch kaos?
They're being sold in Taiwan, I just managed to find someone who spoke enough English to answer questions ship them to me :)
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Post by r0sa »

Kaos wrote:
r0sa wrote:so where are these kits being sold at?

are you making them from scratch kaos?
They're being sold in Taiwan, I just managed to find someone who spoke enough English to answer questions ship them to me :)


HAHA NICE! all u gotta do is sweet talk them crazy people :)

i would want one but then again would be afraid of the consequences...if there are any :(
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Post by r0sa »

one question:
so let's say if 13+ people buy these kits, would it be cheaper than $160?

just curious :)
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Post by Kaos »

r0sa wrote:
Kaos wrote:
r0sa wrote:so where are these kits being sold at?

are you making them from scratch kaos?
They're being sold in Taiwan, I just managed to find someone who spoke enough English to answer questions ship them to me :)


HAHA NICE! all u gotta do is sweet talk them crazy people :)

i would want one but then again would be afraid of the consequences...if there are any :(
Well, I hit 88MPH and nearly went back to the future, but thats the only cosequence I know of :P
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Post by ericalm »

So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
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Post by r0sa »

ericalm wrote:So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
i believe both sir, is that against the rules?
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Post by ericalm »

r0sa wrote:
ericalm wrote:So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
i believe both sir, is that against the rules?
If it's any sort of solicitation that leads to an exchange of money or goods, it should go in the For Sale section.
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Post by djelliott »

ericalm wrote:
r0sa wrote:
ericalm wrote:So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
i believe both sir, is that against the rules?
If it's any sort of solicitation that leads to an exchange of money or goods, it should go in the For Sale section.
This one looks like it's more for info. When kaos gets a tested kit it'll be more like a sales thread.
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Post by Kaos »

ericalm wrote:
r0sa wrote:
ericalm wrote:So is this an informative thread or a pre-order thread?
i believe both sir, is that against the rules?
If it's any sort of solicitation that leads to an exchange of money or goods, it should go in the For Sale section.
Yeah, at this point its basically informative. If I get to the point of selling it, I'll either ask to move it to for sale, or start a new one. :)
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Post by gearhead »

good thing there is no boring required. that's a pain in the ass. how much is the first batch? with this kit, do you need an aftermarket crank / brakes? im willing to put the kit on if i can get my hands on one 8)
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Post by Kaos »

gearhead wrote:good thing there is no boring required. that's a pain in the ass. how much is the first batch? with this kit, do you need an aftermarket crank / brakes? im willing to put the kit on if i can get my hands on one 8)
Nope, stock crank. Brakes are up to you :) I think the stock brakes stop awesome, but you may not agree.
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Post by r0sa »

r0sa wrote:one question:
so let's say if 13+ people buy these kits, would it be cheaper than $160?

just curious :)

my question was never answered :(
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Post by Kaos »

r0sa wrote:
r0sa wrote:one question:
so let's say if 13+ people buy these kits, would it be cheaper than $160?

just curious :)

my question was never answered :(
15 people would be $155
17 people would be $150
19 people would be $145
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Post by monza »

um, is the stock carb up to supplying ~50cc more of cylinder volume? I say this not knowing what the Buddy has for a carb, but in my experience, stock carbs are barely capable of feeding larger displacement cylinders than they were originally intended for, even when jetted up...
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Post by Lostmycage »

Stock carb is a 24mm CVK. That's for both a 125 and a 150 Buddy. It'll handle the larger displacement (because it's a CVK) but you'll get more power out of a larger (28mm-30mm) carb. You'd absolutely need to retune the carb with this kit, though.
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Post by monza »

Lostmycage wrote:Stock carb is a 24mm CVK. That's for both a 125 and a 150 Buddy. It'll handle the larger displacement (because it's a CVK) but you'll get more power out of a larger (28mm-30mm) carb. You'd absolutely need to retune the carb with this kit, though.
ok, I wouldnt have guessed it to be that large. Most of the time they stick a little 19mm on the 125s...and then they also use some wierd ass carbs like Guertner, Walbro, or other odd ball thats hard to get Jets and needles for.
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Post by Kaos »

monza wrote:
Lostmycage wrote:Stock carb is a 24mm CVK. That's for both a 125 and a 150 Buddy. It'll handle the larger displacement (because it's a CVK) but you'll get more power out of a larger (28mm-30mm) carb. You'd absolutely need to retune the carb with this kit, though.
ok, I wouldnt have guessed it to be that large. Most of the time they stick a little 19mm on the 125s...and then they also use some wierd ass carbs like Guertner, Walbro, or other odd ball thats hard to get Jets and needles for.
Nope, they're 24mm Mikuni CVK carbs. They're actually really nice carbs for stock.
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Post by gearhead »

after the 175cc kit, lets do a turbo install
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Post by Lostmycage »

gearhead wrote:after the 175cc kit, lets do a turbo install
I think a blower would be easier to install.
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Post by gearhead »

Lostmycage wrote:
gearhead wrote:after the 175cc kit, lets do a turbo install
I think a blower would be easier to install.
we might get something goin here 8)
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Post by ScooterTrash »

Lostmycage wrote:
gearhead wrote:after the 175cc kit, lets do a turbo install
I think a blower would be easier to install.
Definitely not easier, How you going to run the belt?
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Post by gearhead »

lets get together and make this happen
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Post by Lostmycage »

Squirrels, of course.

Or a modified retainer nut that incorporates a 35mm pulley on the variator end of the crankshaft... not that I've CADed it out or anything...

The blower (think very small) would be mounted where the airbox is now, and it's mounting points would be elongated CVT cover bolts; possibly/probably spanning over the rear fender and sharing a mounting point with the top exhaust hanger on the Buddy or the swing arm on the Blur.

The air filter would be more of an inline filter cartridge type with a roughly 50mm drive pulley running the blower. The belt size used would depend on the fit of the blower mechanism in relation to the CVT/swing arm.

The advantage would be less heat exchange to worry about with a turbo (in such a small engine) and the PSI would be directly proportional to the engine speed. Bonus points for a (you're going to love this) clutch system simular to the one in the CVT for the blower engagement/actuation.

Again, it's not like I've given this any thought. Squirrels really would be easier, but not as resistant to heat.

Anyone know where to get some heavy duty squirrels?
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Post by Buddy_wannabe »

Kaos wrote:
r0sa wrote:
r0sa wrote:one question:
so let's say if 13+ people buy these kits, would it be cheaper than $160?

just curious :)

my question was never answered :(
15 people would be $155
17 people would be $150
19 people would be $145
...... sooooooooo if we got all 3985 members to order one ...... would we get the kit and some cash to boot?? :D
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Post by Lostmycage »

Buddy_wannabe wrote:
Kaos wrote:
r0sa wrote:
my question was never answered :(
15 people would be $155
17 people would be $150
19 people would be $145
...... sooooooooo if we got all 3985 members to order one ...... would we get the kit and some cash to boot?? :D
I think it stops counting at 38, I'd say, you wouldn't end up with them paying you for buying it, but by my calculations 38 kits is the magic number here... I'm definitely in for kit #38 - which is silly 'cause I don't have a 125 engine.
Last edited by Lostmycage on Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by gearhead »

exactly
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Post by ScooterTrash »

Can you add the cam and springs to the kit?
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Post by gearhead »

u have to buy those separately? cant use stock ones?
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Post by Kaos »

ScooterTrash wrote:Can you add the cam and springs to the kit?
The cam will add about $120 to the kit, my springs were 1 off customs, but I'll see what the cost will be to fabricate some more.

You can use the stock ones though.
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Post by Lostmycage »

you can use stock ones, but it's just more fun to use a hotter one (and springs to keep the valves closed).
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Post by PasadenaSue »

I am interested in the kit since my Buddy just came off it's warranty.

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Post by ScooterTrash »

Kaos wrote:
ScooterTrash wrote:Can you add the cam and springs to the kit?
The cam will add about $120 to the kit, my springs were 1 off customs, but I'll see what the cost will be to fabricate some more.

You can use the stock ones though.
What fun is that? If I'm tearing into it, I'm tearing into it

Why is the cam almost as much as the kit?
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Post by Kaos »

ScooterTrash wrote:
Kaos wrote:
ScooterTrash wrote:Can you add the cam and springs to the kit?
The cam will add about $120 to the kit, my springs were 1 off customs, but I'll see what the cost will be to fabricate some more.

You can use the stock ones though.
What fun is that? If I'm tearing into it, I'm tearing into it

Why is the cam almost as much as the kit?
Heh, because thats what they charge me for it. I've actually gotten the same cam cheaper from another distributor before. Leme see if I can still get that price. It would be a big price drop if I can.
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Post by djelliott »

I just ordered the cam. :twisted: Can't wait 'til it shows up. With the extra air and fuel I'm dumping in there the cam should be significant.

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