Modern Buddy

Posted: **Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:37 pm**

I do like the fact that BMW does do a lot of their own R&D. And they are a big name "brand" but like any other company they've flirted with bankruptcy several times throughout their history. They almost got out of the business of manufacturing motorcycles at the end of the 50's until they redesigned their boxer engine which helped re-ignite demand.

The rather recent "german engineering" marketing term has quickly lost most of it's cache and is now often said with a wink and a smile after the recent VW cheating scandal.

Of course, Genuine isn't much of a "brand" name at all but I admire that they've been making a go of it in a niche market for some time now. Props to CCW for having the guts to venture into the same small market.

Posted: **Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:05 pm**

I think that the G400c will appeal to several types of people:
- baby boomers such as myself who remember the 70's fondly (if a bit vaguely at some points). The G400c is a lot like a Stella for bikers: a walk back down memory lane.
- newbie bikers. I ride a 250. It's a great bike (for me). It's fantastic on a quiet two lane road. But it is NOT a bike for newbies to be riding on the Interstate. Playing with semis requires fore thought and planning. There just isn't a great deal of excess power there. 400 cc bikes have just enough power to make relaxed Interstate travel possible.
- hipsters.
- a scooterist looking for something different. Let me make something clear: a motorcycle is NOT a step up from a scooter! They are completely different. I started out with Vespas in the late 1970's, in Boston traffic. When I got my first motorcycle in 1982, a tiny Honda CL100, it seemed clumsy and ponderous. Each step up the displacement ladder gave me the same impression. This Spring I got a Buddy 50, and it was a joy to get back on a tiny bike that was as fun as a go-cart to ride. But it took some practice to ride it well. (Note: there is something about a 50cc scooter that makes me be bad. I mean like driving on the sidewalk to get around a trash truck bad. I do things on the 50 that I would never even consider doing on a bigger bike. Is it just me?) Scooters are great, but they take just as much skill as a motorcycle to ride, if not more. Motorcycles are great, too. But they aren't the same as scooter at all. If someone has been riding a scooter for a while, maybe they would enjoy the challenge of learning how to ride a motorcycle. If so, the G400c would be a good choice, especially if the have a great Genuine dealer close by (like we do: Carlisle Cycle and Scooter). But it's not a " step up".

I know that the G400c has created a buzz on the Suzuki TU250 user site. I think a lot of us would have bought it instead of the TUX, if it had been available.

I hope it's a good bike, and I hope Genuine sells a bunch of them. My TUX is going to paid off in just over a year, and I can definitely see the G400c as a replacement!

Posted: **Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:22 pm**

walke2jd wrote:Almost no one (on two wheels) I talk to knows of Genuine, and even fewer realize they are just an importer of PGO products.
And even then, this cruiser is not PGO. So this is a bit like taking a chance on a new brand.

Not quite that big a leap. Remember, Genuine started with the Stella (built in India by LML). And despite it's quirks, they have stuck with it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:02 am**

Dooglas wrote:...But the idea that I'd have my life on hold waiting for that to happen strikes me as a bit silly...

Are you calling me silly?

Here's the real issue I have with a small MC. I probably won't fit. I might fit a large scooter (but there's no guarantees, of course).

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:15 pm**

Seems most people I talk to don't know Genuine as a scooter company, but when I mention the Buddy 125 they nod their head and say they know that name, they thought "Buddy" was the name of the company!

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:58 pm**

Syd wrote:
Dooglas wrote:...But the idea that I'd have my life on hold waiting for that to happen strikes me as a bit silly...
Are you calling me silly?

No, Syd. I'd call you the guy who bought a BV 350, instead of waiting for Genuine to sort out whether they are going anywhere with the Unicorn Cruiser. Good call BTW.

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:10 pm**

Personally, I think that scooter folks thinking about dipping a toe into "traditional" motorcycle waters are much better served with a used "standard" such as a Rebel. It's a low-cost, low-risk entry point. If the experience isn't your cup of tea - no problem - you can probably sell it for what you paid. If it whets you appetite for "more", you can still sell it and move on to the ride of your choice.

As to the 400, justified or not I'm still very skeptical about mainland China products. It's true that the box gets shaken correctly on occasion and out pops something decent, but that's not enough for me.

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:56 pm**

Here's the thing about bikes from China:

You have factories which produce low and junk - the scooters we all know and love like TaoTao, Jonway, etc. These use low quality materials, cheapest, fastest labor, etc. to saturate the market.

You have factories which produce better stuff due to better quality control - some Kymcos are made in China, as are some Hondas, etc.

It's about the quality of the parts used, and the quality control of the factory. It's easy to bash Chinese bikes because of the many, many low quality ones made. But they aren't all junk.

(Though many are

)

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:02 pm**

I'd love a more traditional bike too. I love them all. well, I love the tech that goes into them all, but I'm not a sportbike or adventurebike person (short inseam, like a comfy seat, and no real desire to go over 75 regularly).

I like Genuine's stuff, and most of it has held up well. I do have one general guideline, which is never to buy the 1st gen of anything (especially Apple and Genuine).

I really hope this goes well for them.

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:39 pm**

Hi first time post,,new member,,,looks like i dove into the G400c thread at the wrong time,,,i just wanted to get a delivery time frame for the bike,,,i heard it's made in south africa by a contract factory that used to make bikes for honda,,,no matter really i have a Stella 4t and couldn't be happier,,it does what it's supposed to do,with little effort,,most all makers now use chinese engines,,,bmw does it yamaha uses kymco engines,all of hondas small cube bikes were made by sym,,honda sym &kymco all used to be the same company and they split,,,vespa uses taiwanese engines,,,they all do it,,harleys small street series bikes have chinese engines,,if the bike was made in india i'd still buy it,,thrilled with my Stella,,,had a vespa et4 (the biggest POS on the planet,,,sold it and got my stella,,,ktm is selling a duke 390 thats made in india,,,early problems are being addressed,,not too bad of a bike now,,,but i saw the G400c and fell in love all over again,,gotta have one,,it is exactly what i'm looking for,,you buy what you like i don't fault anyone that,,but sometimes it's not what you think

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:33 am**

cyborg wrote:I heard it's made in South Africa by a contract factory that used to make bikes for Honda,,,

Okay, I'll bite. Where did you hear that?

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:32 am**

Not sure,,read it yesterday,,I'll see if I can find the source,,,I did find out from ooty's scooters in Santa Barbara ca that the anticipated release date is late 2016 for California ,,,massive bummer for me,,,I really want one

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:06 am**

I have no problems with a bike built in China. My Aprilia came out of a factory in China, but it is by no means a Chinese scooter.

I will have to see it in person, but I am very interested in this bike. I almost pulled the trigger on a TU250x, but couldn't justify getting a motorcycle that was barely faster than my scooter. And as much as I like some of the small sport bikes, I never saw myself as a "sport bike guy." I just may end up with another Genuine in my garage.

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:41 pm**

Dooglas wrote:
cyborg wrote:I heard it's made in South Africa by a contract factory that used to make bikes for Honda,,,
Okay, I'll bite. Where did you hear that?

http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine ... -for-2016/

It isn't mentioned there, but it's South Africa (as per info from 1 Genuine dealer and another reliable source). It doesn't every part is made there, obviously.

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:48 pm**

It was produced for the South African market and marketed as the Honda CB400ss. (google Honda CB400ss) The manufacturer is Shineray who produced those motorcycles under a contract for Honda, meeting Honda specs.

From my communication with the writer of Scooterfile, this is the same motorcycle, however upgraded significantly with Taiwanese electronics and specs. This makes it different than the MASH motorcycles in UK. Same manufacturer, but different specs.

Our Stella's are no different - manufactured from the tooling from Vespa for the P series, and LML was contracted by Genuine to bring the Stella over here. The body work may be the same, however the inners are different.

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:38 pm**

RoaringTodd wrote:It was produced for the South African market and marketed as the Honda CB400ss. (google Honda CB400ss) The manufacturer is Shineray who produced those motorcycles under a contract for Honda, meeting Honda specs.

From my communication with the writer of Scooterfile, this is the same motorcycle, however upgraded significantly with Taiwanese electronics and specs. This makes it different than the MASH motorcycles in UK. Same manufacturer, but different specs.

Our Stella's are no different - manufactured from the tooling from Vespa for the P series, and LML was contracted by Genuine to bring the Stella over here. The body work may be the same, however the inners are different.

Nah, still made in China in the same factory. I heard it from the horse's mouth.

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:01 pm**

Shineray is a Chinese manufacturer.

They manufactured the HONDA CB400ss under contract with Honda for the South African Market.

They manufacture the MASH motorcycles for the UK market.

And now, they will be contracted to manufacture the g400c for the US market, however those three motorcycles are not the same. The g400c will have upgraded electronics (Taiwanese) and will manufactured to Genuine specifications.

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:07 pm**

I tried my best, I'm a VOIP Programmer not a Photo Chopper.

PS. I couldn't find a image of batman looking left to steal the cape from.

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:38 pm**

I've seen a few youtube videos of chinese factories,,,impressive,,fully modern,,the only thing thats giving me any trepidation at all is parts availability,,the bike is real nice and if made right i'm in,,,as long as the quality is there,,

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:06 pm**

RoaringTodd wrote:Shineray is a Chinese manufacturer.

They manufactured the HONDA CB400ss under contract with Honda for the South African Market.

They manufacture the MASH motorcycles for the UK market.

And now, they will be contracted to manufacture the g400c for the US market, however those three motorcycles are not the same. The g400c will have upgraded electronics (Taiwanese) and will manufactured to Genuine specifications.

Who are you hearing this from?

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:38 am**

JohnKiniston wrote:I tried my best, I'm a VOIP Programmer not a Photo Chopper.

PS. I couldn't find a image of batman looking left to steal the cape from.

Ha!

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:24 am**

RoaringTodd wrote:It was produced for the South African market and marketed as the Honda CB400ss. (google Honda CB400ss) The manufacturer is Shineray who produced those motorcycles under a contract for Honda, meeting Honda specs.

From my communication with the writer of Scooterfile, this is the same motorcycle, however upgraded significantly with Taiwanese electronics and specs. This makes it different than the MASH motorcycles in UK. Same manufacturer, but different specs.

Our Stella's are no different - manufactured from the tooling from Vespa for the P series, and LML was contracted by Genuine to bring the Stella over here. The body work may be the same, however the inners are different.

I can definitely see the family resemblance...

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:34 am**

This custom cafe' version looks pretty awesome too.

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:35 am**

Are we really back to the BMW argument?

The motor of the BMW C650GT and the C600 sport were designed by BMW and are manufactured by Kymco in Taiwan. The scooters are assembled in Germany.

My Burgman Ex 650 needed $3,000 in repairs at 24K miles and was going to need another $3,000 repair at 37K miles. So much for low maintenance costs and Japanese reliability. I have found the BMW to be an excellent replacement.

Getting back to the thread. The Genuine/PGO line has generally been bullet proof. After the issues with the Stella autos I'm interested to see how well this is built and how well this bike holds up.

For me..I like it...but I'm a scooter guy...so far.

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:28 pm**

How many miles on your BMW scooter so far?

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:45 pm**

Thanks to the power of the internet we can easily find out in eerie detail why every bike in existence sucks.

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:02 pm**

i can vouch for the stella 4t personally,,except for a bad/intermittant glass tube fuse holder (changed to a blade style )and a clutch cable early on the bike has performed flawlessly,,,decent quality ,nice paint fit and finish isn't bad at all,,,i'm sold on genuine,,,

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:55 pm**

It's funny how branding has an effect on people. I saw the picture of the Honda, and felt all warm and fuzzy. I said, "Oh, I'll take that one"
I know there may be subtle differences between the G400c, "Mash", and CB400. I'm not saying one is better the other, but the Honda reminds me of all the current and past good experiences I've had with their bikes. The other two just leave question marks.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:59 pm**

george54 wrote:How many miles on your BMW scooter so far?

A little over 19K

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:00 am**

avescoots1134 wrote:Thanks to the power of the internet we can easily find out in eerie detail why every bike in existence sucks.

Oh I might need to put that in my sig line!

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:02 am**

cyborg wrote:i can vouch for the stella 4t personally,,except for a bad/intermittant glass tube fuse holder (changed to a blade style )and a clutch cable early on the bike has performed flawlessly,,,decent quality ,nice paint fit and finish isn't bad at all,,,i'm sold on genuine,,,

Is it the auto? The 4T manual has been pretty good but there have been problems with the auto

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:46 am**

It's the manual 4t,,,

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:07 am**

I stand corrected about the BMW/Kymco remark, but that snide little joke wasn't really the point. I understand brand loyalty, but I won't let that keep me from considering other options.

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:09 am**

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!! I was just searching CL for a old 70s Japanese Standard Bike like a Honda CB to make a Cafe racer... I wasn't finding anything that wasn't a total basket case. Looks like I'll be looking at this in the dealership!!!!

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:35 pm**

If you google shineray you're going to find out they make a TON of clones, from Puch style 50cc to 125/250cc street bikes, to various classic clones apart from the one were getting. I am not super into motorcycles, but it appears they make a clone of the Honda Hawk from the way the frame looks.

Anyhow, the link that OP provided stated: "Surprising announcement from Genuine Scooter Company today as they’ve taken the wraps off a brand new 400cc motorcycle model. You read that correctly. Genuine is making a motorcycle. In an announcement sent to dealers today, this new model has been dubbed the G400C, and like the Stella before it, this little motorcycle aims to modernize a classic style. Standing for “Genuine 400 Classic”, the G400C won’t wear the Genuine Scooter Company badge. Instead, a new, sibling marque dubbed Genuine Motorcycles will handle this new bike which our sources say is actually the first of several classic-styled motorcycles to wear the big G in the future.".

That being said, I would only assume they would likely go with Shineray, as it looks like thay have an arsenal of 250-400cc bikes that may fit the bill.

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:15 pm**

So does this mean the rainbow unicorns are real?

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:06 pm**

EvilNerdLord wrote:So does this mean the rainbow unicorns are real?

No, I think it means the rainbow unicorns remain imaginary while Genuine pursues the US mid-sized motorcycle market which they believe to be a heck of a lot bigger than the scooter market.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:36 am**

Dooglas wrote:
EvilNerdLord wrote:So does this mean the rainbow unicorns are real?
No, I think it means the rainbow unicorns remain imaginary while Genuine pursues the US mid-sized motorcycle market which they believe to be a heck of a lot bigger than the scooter market.

Agreed. I think it means Genuine shot the unicorn. Batman too.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:23 pm**

Bit late to the party, Genuine. I'm already waiting for the Bulldog to come out for my 400cc machine.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:57 pm**

avescoots1134 wrote:For reviews, check out the Mash Five Hundred. It's the same bike

http://www.bikesmedia.com/mash-five-hun ... cheap.html

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:19 pm**

I saw the scrambler 400 too, but it's a weird duck.

It's almost the same size as the regular scrambler, but has a simpler suspension and parts. As of this writing, it's only slated to be $500 cheaper than the full size scrambler, so....not for me ( I would totally rock a normal one).

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:02 pm**

That Italian photo hurts my head. Just because it has a high rear fender don't make it no Scrambler. Where is/are the high pipes? Non-clogging front fender?????

This was simpler in the '70s

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:10 pm**

PeteH wrote:That Italian photo hurts my head. Just because it has a high rear fender don't make it no Scrambler. Where is/are the high pipes? Non-clogging front fender?????

This was simpler in the '70s

Absolutely what I was thinking. Just because you can fit a set of knobbies on the wheels, that don't make it a scrambler.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:45 pm**

george54 wrote:
PeteH wrote:That Italian photo hurts my head. Just because it has a high rear fender don't make it no Scrambler. Where is/are the high pipes? Non-clogging front fender?????

This was simpler in the '70s
Absolutely what I was thinking. Just because you can fit a set of knobbies on the wheels, that don't make it a scrambler.

But it looks like a scrambler and that's (almost) all that matters.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:20 pm**

Syd wrote:
george54 wrote:
PeteH wrote:That Italian photo hurts my head. Just because it has a high rear fender don't make it no Scrambler. Where is/are the high pipes? Non-clogging front fender?????

This was simpler in the '70s
Absolutely what I was thinking. Just because you can fit a set of knobbies on the wheels, that don't make it a scrambler.
But it looks like a scrambler and that's (almost) all that matters.

Just playing devil's advocate here: It only looks like a scrambler to those who have never ridden and/or owned a true scrambler.

Posted: **Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:50 am**

I've been reading all I can on this G400C & like what I've learned. It compares well with the most enjoyable motorcycle I ever owned, a 1981 Suzuki GN400. Bought it new in 1983 from $999 out the door. Single, air cooled, very light & nimble. Decent torque too. I rode it like a fool, crashed it once so my fiance demanded I sell it. Anyway I no longer ride like a fool but I do like a simple, lightweight thumper & for most of my riding this G400C would be perfect. Looks amazing too. Tired of dragging my 650 in & out of my cluttered garage & backing up the cars to make room. Wet weight is 490. Great for droning down the open highways but I rarely have time to get out of the city anymore. Putting way more miles on the Buddy this year.

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:47 pm**

babblefish wrote:
Syd wrote:
george54 wrote: Absolutely what I was thinking. Just because you can fit a set of knobbies on the wheels, that don't make it a scrambler.
But it looks like a scrambler and that's (almost) all that matters.
Just playing devil's advocate here: It only looks like a scrambler to those who have never ridden and/or owned a true scrambler.

That's pretty much what Steve McQueen had to say... when he reviewed the BSA Hornet for Popular Science magazine in the August 1966 issue. lol

Posted: **Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:51 am**

I was hoping we would have more information about a release date and final specs/colors by now. I am reeeeeeeally interested in one, but it seems that the initial hype didn't last long. Genuine needs to market the s*** out of this bike. Like... now.

Posted: **Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:32 pm**

As you can see by the volume of posts in the Blur 220i sub-forum, that model has not been a huge seller, compared to the Buddy and Stella. I think they are counting on the Genuine 400c to create the same level of enthusiasm and brand loyalty as the Buddy and Stella.
I don't plan to buy a Genuine 400, but I can't wait to see one at my local dealer.

Posted: **Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:08 pm**

jrstone wrote:I was hoping we would have more information about a release date and final specs/colors by now. I am reeeeeeeally interested in one, but it seems that the initial hype didn't last long. Genuine needs to market the s*** out of this bike. Like... now.

Maybe they don't know when it will be ready, since they haven't announced it yet my guess is late summer.

I'm actually more curious why they haven't started pushing the Buddy Kick yet. As a small scooter fan I think the Kick is the more exciting release. The Kick has potential to be a great scooter, hopefully I can test ride one at some point.

Modern Buddy

Genuine G400C

New bike

Radio silence

Re: Radio silence