Modern Buddy

Trying to troubleshoot my relatively new 2009 Genuine Stella. I have logged on 161 of the 169 miles she now has.
Just today I noticed that it seemed as if the engine was losing power or hesitating when accelerating, and when I went to start it later, it took a great deal of finessing, something I never had to do before. To clarify "finessing," I mean several attempts at starting her up, only to have her die out, a few seconds after ignition.
I checked the gas. I have a full tank. The oil indicator window shows no bubble, so I assume the level is fine. I tried a start with both the choke in and out, and after 6 tries, I got her to hold idle long enough for me to get her in 1st and take off.
I rode her for a few miles and seemed to be running OK, but with a seeming loss of that "Vavoom" she had just 168 miles ago.
Any ideas what may be happening?
I don't think I've had her long enough to wreck her...yet.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

despurvoa wrote:Trying to troubleshoot my relatively new 2009 Genuine Stella. I have logged on 161 of the 169 miles she now has.
Just today I noticed that it seemed as if the engine was losing power or hesitating when accelerating, and when I went to start it later, it took a great deal of finessing, something I never had to do before. To clarify "finessing," I mean several attempts at starting her up, only to have her die out, a few seconds after ignition.
I checked the gas. I have a full tank. The oil indicator window shows no bubble, so I assume the level is fine. I tried a start with both the choke in and out, and after 6 tries, I got her to hold idle long enough for me to get her in 1st and take off.
I rode her for a few miles and seemed to be running OK, but with a seeming loss of that "Vavoom" she had just 168 miles ago.
Any ideas what may be happening?
I don't think I've had her long enough to wreck her...yet.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Pull the spark plug. If it looks wet, you probably have an ignition miss. If it looks lean, you probably have a clogged carb jet.

Don't ride a 2 stroke bike if it is not running right. Too often the result can be a seize.

Thanks!
I would assume I haven't seized it yet? Hope not!
Any good resources for addressing a "miss" or a clogged jet on the internet? If not, I hope my Haynes manual will tell me something. I have carb clearner spray and a various assortments of little odds and ends thanks to the suggestions of forum members like yourself.

despurvoa wrote:Thanks!
I would assume I haven't seized it yet? Hope not!
Any good resources for addressing a "miss" or a clogged jet on the internet? If not, I hope my Haynes manual will tell me something. I have carb clearner spray and a various assortments of little odds and ends thanks to the suggestions of forum members like yourself.

If it is under warranty, I would take it to the shop. They should be able to show you what is up with the carb.

Cleaning jets is pretty easy. See here-

http://www.vespamaintenance.com/fuel/ca ... index.html

Note: the instructions are for a complete rebuild. You only have to pull off the airfilter to get access to the jets, not the steps that he shows. Just look at the pictures to identify where the jets are.

The jets are made from soft metal, so be very careful not to overtighten, crossthread, etc.

Sounds simple but did you check your choke?
Mine ran kind of like that one day when I left the choke out a little

Thanks for the reminder, and yes, I checked the choke. Funny you say that because a couple of weeks ago I was stalling when I came to a stop and noticed (after frantically checking everything else) the choke was out just a smidgen, so i pushed it in and all was fine.
I was watching those 4 part segments on Youtube about the Stella maintenance by Scootervillian and he freaked me out about the prospect of cross threading when I try and put the spark plug back in! I will be sweating that tomorrow, I can tell you!
Thanks for the link to the jet cleaning info. I live about 30 miles from my dealer in Lake Geneva, WI, so if I can get a trailer I'll haul it down there. I'd love to spend a day just videotaping everything for reference that goes on in that shop! What a resource!

By the way, does anyone know what that big cap with screws on it, next to the gas and oil caps is? It has a wire/tube that leads away from it and goes down into the body.
I've checked my owner's manual, service station manual,and the Haynes manual. They all show the drawing of it, but none indicate it or make reference to it. It's like the navel, no one really talks about it, but we all see it.

Don't sweat putting the plug in. The best way is to finger tighten as far as you can. By the time it seats you will feel if it is threaded correctly. You're not going to mess up the threads with your fingers. Once you know it is seated snug it up with a plug wrench. Just be careful not to over tighten with a wrench. I usually go 1/4 turn after finger tight.

I was able to easily unscrew the plug and put a new one in! Thanks guys!
But WTF? That little nib from the first plug is still in the spark plug boot?! Has anyone ever had this happen?

despurvoa wrote:I was able to easily unscrew the plug and put a new one in! Thanks guys!
But WTF? That little nib from the first plug is still in the spark plug boot?! Has anyone ever had this happen?

Never mind! LOL
Thank goodness for dirt bike friends in the neighborhood!

I'd bet on the clogged jet. Very common.

I think you're right! We have ethanol here in Southeast Wisconsin and I've heard that can contribute to clogging things further!
Maybe, maybe not, but man, I am getting quite the education!
My wife is somewhat dismayed that I am having issues with my Sella so soon, but then she has a little Honda Metropolitan, so she has a different perspective on things!
I don't mind learning as long as I don't invariably make things worse!

By the way. My spark plug was black and dry so I looked in my manual and it said "carbon fouling." Sounds dirty, doesn't it?
Anywho, It says that my air filter may be clogged or that I am working the clutch improperly.
It still is a little fussy at start-up and there is still hesitation when riding. (It did start up better though)
Would clogged jets still apply here too? I tend to think the that the more laborious answer always applies to me anyway!

Try adjusting the air mixture screw, that's the screw you can see through the hole in the back of the airbox. Tighten it gently, then unscrew it one and a half turns. Then start the bike and listen to the engine. Let it warm up and make sure the choke lever is in. Then adjust it (w/ engine running) until you get an even "chug chug chug chug chug." should be somewhere between one and two full rotations out. Then adjust your throttle screw so it's idling gently w/o stalling.

If that doesn't hel, I'd think the carb needs a full cleaning.

despurvoa wrote:I think you're right! We have ethanol here in Southeast Wisconsin and I've heard that can contribute to clogging things further!
Maybe, maybe not, but man, I am getting quite the education!
My wife is somewhat dismayed that I am having issues with my Sella so soon, but then she has a little Honda Metropolitan, so she has a different perspective on things!
I don't mind learning as long as I don't invariably make things worse!

i live in ne wi and the way around the e10 is runing permium but even in the scoot that i run e10 in i dont have any issues with cloging jets but i do keep seafoam in the tank if it sites for more then a few days

Is the air mixture screw the same as the idle screw? My air filter is very clean, so I know I'm fine there. Throttle screw? I guess all these things are carburetor location specific.

I use sea foam in my engines when I store my scooter over the winter. I've heard this is a must, not only for storage, but because of the ethanol too!

Maybe I have the names wrong, but by "air mixture screw" i mean #43 in this diagram:

http://www.scooterhelp.com/manuals/VNX1 ... age038.jpg

(accessible through the airbox by removing rubber plug #55)

The throttle screw is #50, also pictured above assembly #3 (it sticks out of the top of the airbox with a rubber gasket around it). That adjusts how high your engine revs at idle, but you don't wanna mess with it until you're sure the air mixture screw is set properly.

That diagram's also good if you're going to rebuild/clean. replace the seals if they're worn at all, and the most important thing is to loosen the two main mounting bolts evenly, a little at a time, and replace them the same way, to avoid warping the base of the carb.

But if it's under warranty, let the shop do it. : )

Bb.

You are awesome, Illnoise!
Wow! Why can't every diagram look that good?!
Yeah, my Stella is under warranty (I bought it at the end of June when I decided I would switch my deposit to the 2T instead of the 4T). Very happy! She is GREAT! Very fun to ride, although I feel more easy on my GT200. I think it's just new and I don't want it to pay for my ignorance.
I can definitely understand everything from your diagram though!
Thanks again! You're the best!

despurvoa wrote:You are awesome, Illnoise!
Wow! Why can't every diagram look that good?!

Not my diagram, it's Piaggio's. : )

Lots of old manuals and tech advice at scooterhelp.com, just to name one site. The Stella's basically a PX150, which is pretty similar to the later P200E

That's part of why the 4T Stella doesn't interest me so much, there's not 50 years of accumulated knowledge about it, freely and immediately available on the web. : )

despurvoa wrote:Very fun to ride, although I feel more easy on my GT200. I think it's just new and I don't want it to pay for my ignorance.
I can definitely understand everything from your diagram though!
Thanks again! You're the best! :D

Thanks, glad to help, and happy to hear "thanks" instead of "stop being an elitist know-it-all" for once. : )

And the difference is not psychological, a GT200 IS easier to ride, it's more modern engineering. The Stella's not a deathtrap or anything, but you definitely DO want to be extra careful, the bike just doesn't respond, handle, brake, etc. like a modern bike, but that's why you have two bikes, right!

Also, just noticed you're in SE Wisconsin, PLEASE come down to Chicago for Slaughterhouse 16 over Labor Day weekend, it'll be a blast.

http://www.slaughterhousechicago.com/

(Site will be updated soon, more deets on facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=1 ... 575&ref=ts

That sounds like A LOT of fun! And how can I resist that awesome Scooter Prom Illustration?! It could be VERY doable, at least without a calendar around I say that.
I've never been to something like this, but have always wanted to. They have an event up her called, "Rockerbox?" I'd love to meet others that love to scoot as much as I do (or more even!!!)
I guess I need to see which scoot I'll feel more comfortable taking.
Thanks for the heads-up!

Rockerbox is generally awesome. Hundreds of old bikes, and NO HARLEYS! (well, maybe a couple tasteful ones). You'll definitely run into some scooterists there. The club there used to be the Vesparados, mostly run by Jon, Brent, and Corey, I miss those guys, but I run into them once in a while. I met some new guys last time I went, but I can't remember their names, or even the name of the club.

Any bike is welcome at Slaughterhouse, but if you're riding down, the modern one will probably be more comfy, ha. Thanks for the props on the artwork, I did the layout and my friend Britton (nerfect.com) did the illustration.

I saw your other post, I'm a designer too, (coudal.com). I suspect some of the older Vespas are even tighter to the Mean, and probably not accidentally, D'Ascanio was a genius. Can't believe I'd never thought about that before. If you wanna expand on that, I'd love to post it on 2strokebuzz.com.

I think the Slaughterhouse piece is a good union of design and illustration. Very retro, yet subversive. The worn look is a nice touch too! Reminds me of the condition of some of my old MAD magazine covers!

My background is illustration, but I'm sure you know how you can't really escape effective design in anything that visually works.

Yeah, it would definitely be worth looking at D'Ascanio's background a little more closely. I knew there had to be more to the aesthetics than the conclusion that the "curve appeal" is purely sexist on my part. Sure, rounded cowls are evocative of the female form, but it's not like I immediately look to ride a surrogate female. Or...d...I? J/K
I simply admire the marriage of form and function. When you see it, you have to admire it and prostelize somewhat.