What would you do?

[Whimscootie]

I bought this little Met a few months ago from a local Honda shop and it was ''like new'' with only 700ish miles on it. It had been lightly used by it's previous owner and kept inside, but it is 14 years old. I was told by the shop that they replaced the gas tank, cleaned the carb, changed out all the fluids and filters and spark plug. I test rode it and it ran like a top.
Bought it, rode it several hundred miles, and a few days ago it starts to ''bog down'' while cruising at half throttle while I am out grocery shopping a few miles from home. When I stopped at a light and the accelerated, it stalled.
I restarted it, throttled, stalled. Got it on the side of the road and it would not idle on the stand.

Along comes a Good Samaritan motorcycle man to help me and he gets it idling by WOT several times and says he think it is a fuel flow issue. I slowly roll into my driveway and once there I let it run on the stand for a bit then I top off the gas tank and add SeaFoam and run it through.

Grey smoke comes out of the exhaust so I figure that some of the ''old time crud'' of 14 years must have been loosened by my 50 mile country rides, so that is good, right?

After I do this some more the next day it will start right up, throttle without dying, and idle strongly. So I take a test run and no problem.

Last night I take an evening ride and about 4 miles into it I get slight spurts of hesitation. I come to a traffic light and it dies on throttle. Grace of God I got it going to get out of traffic to the side of the road and I had to walk it a mile home.

By this time the engine would run, but throttle brought no acceleration. Dash light stayed on, headlamp off and on.

Today? Starts and idles, then dies when throttled.

I am no mechanic but I read and researched enough to know that this old GET2 engine has this sort of stuff happen a lot and this one sat for years. I also know it could be many things.

But I am no mechanic and cannot fix this myself. I am at the mercy of this dealer. I spent 1100 on a scooter that does not run and could cost 100s of bucks to fix. No warranty, of course. The scoot is toast.

What would you do? Ask for a refund, store credit, trade?

Pay a huge repair bill? Ask for a free repair?

Offer it dirt cheap on CL?

Any ideas appreciated.

[giddyup98]

Unless the dealer is extremely generous, I doubt they will give you anything other than trade-in value (if that) for your 14 year old Met. Since you bought it without a warranty, it is an "AS IS" sale which entitles you to nothing after the sale if something goes wrong. I would find out how much it will cost to fix it and if it's gonna be more than it's fair market value, I would sell it on CL and cut your losses.

[sc00ter]

I have 2 Met riders and they both have had something similar happen to them. The MetII has crazy high miles and has been de-restricted. His problem turned out to be a fuel pump on its way out. When cool, it ran fine-when warmed up, starts to die. We checked the stator output, for vapor lock in fuel system, valve clearance, throttle position sensor, carb internals and a few other things before a friend of his figured out the fuel pump issue. Mets are hard to work on WHEN/IF they ever fail. I know the other Met (1st year of after the MetII, meaning his is normal) pinched a fuel hose under the seat. He removed it for something unrelated and pinched the tight fitting seat pan on the fuel hose during reassembly. He rerouted the fuel hose and all is good now. The Ruckus owners web site has a very good trouble shooting section since the Ruck and Met have the same motor mechanicals.

[sc00ter]

I would at least learn how to check the throttle position sensor (since many a person has had one shift on them from not reassembling it correctly while working on the carb) and check the fuel flow to see if the fuel pump is dying. Neither is really hard to do and requires basic hand tools. And just because a dealer says something was done does not always mean it was done correctly. Maybe something came loose. Most senior mechanics feel a moped is below their status level and pass it onto the newest mechanic, who only wants to work on the cool stuff.

[paracer]

This really sounds like the carb (specifically the jets) have become clogged. A good cleaning would probably help, but on a 14 year old scooter, a card replacement might be better.

[ScooterDave]

But I am no mechanic and cannot fix this myself. I am at the mercy of this dealer. I spent 1100 on a scooter that does not run and could cost 100s of bucks to fix. No warranty, of course. The scoot is toast.

What would you do? Ask for a refund, store credit, trade?

Pay a huge repair bill? Ask for a free repair?

Offer it dirt cheap on CL?

Any ideas appreciated.

WWSDD? What would Scooter Dave do? Tell you to suck it up buttercup.

How in any way whatsoever is the dealer obligated to do anything? You bought a used scooter. Not just a used scooter but, an old used scooter. Then you rode it quite a bit and something happened. How in any way is that the dealers fault which would obligate them to fix anything for free.

Welcome to the world of used bikes. There is a price of admission to owning a used two wheel vehicle. If you can not afford the cost of admission, perhaps look at alternatives to owning a used scooter.

I bought another used BMW motorcycle this year from a dealer. It was a good deal and had "JUST BEEN SERVICED". A short time later I took it on a trip. Well.... The hall effect ignition sensor went out 700 miles from home. I rented a car and drove back. The dealer knew what the problem was from my description of what happened. He ordered the part and I went back a few days later and retrieved my motorcycle. It sucked big time. But, in no way was it the dealers fault and I never ever would have asked for anything special such as a discount. Shit happens.

You probably did not want to hear this. But, I do not like to read about people thinking they are entitled to something when they are not.

[cummingsjc]

Talk to the dealer from whence you bought the scooter and see if they might be able to cut you a bit of a break on repair costs. I would not go in demanding or angry in tone, just see if they will stand behind their original sale a bit. Hopefully, they might cut you a bit of a break on some of the repair work/diagnostics/etc as a show of good faith for you remaining a loyal customer but I wouldn't absolutely expect anything.

If you feel that you were taken advantage of with the sale of the scooter, I don't believe you have any real legal recourse. As Scooter Dave stated, the bike was probably sold "AS IS" and there should not have been any expectation of warranty on it. Even if you could find some way to bring this to a court battle and win, you would have spend way more than the repair costs of the scooter. The only real solution would be to deny that dealer your future business and to let other scooter folks in the local area know that their used bikes might not be worth purchasing.

Depending upon the actual repair cost, I would probably dump the bike if it was going to exceed more than about half the cost and use that money instead on a another, newer, more-reliable scooter.

[Whimscootie]

I never said it was the dealer's fault and I never said I expected them to offer to fix it free of charge. I may never mention it to the dealer and I may not take it back there. I've known this dealer for years and they may offer to look at it for no or low charge if I mention it but that is not an expectation.

And yes, I know the risks of buying used. So I am not faulting anyone here. Just exploring my options and looking for helpful feedback.

Yours was not ''helpful'', it was ''hateful''. and sorry for your problems but lambasting others is never going to solve your own poor choices.

I know the scooter was sold ''as is'' and I also know that no one can predict what will happen with old scooters that sat unridden for many years.

I have no ill will toward the dealer and would buy again from them, but next time new, under warranty.

This, in fact, is the first, and last, really older used scooter I have bought. Others were a year or so older and ridden frequently.

I'm not gonna sue or have a nervous breakdown over this. It may be fixable, it may not be worth it. I was planning a new purchase there in the spring so they may take it as an ''as is'' trade. We'll see. Meanwhile thanks to those with helpful comments. Scooter Dave, go get that first cup of coffee, man! You need it! LOL

[dasscooter]

The issue is that you don't know what's wrong with it yet and you're already trying to jump ship. Something as simple as a bit of bad gas will cause all those problems and no, Seafoam doesn't do anything. Bring it to the dealer!

Edit: I've seen people demand refunds for their "broken" scooters when they left the kill switch on. Don't be that guy.

[JettaKnight]

WWSDD? What would Scooter Dave do? Tell you to suck it up buttercup.

How in any way whatsoever is the dealer obligated to do anything? You bought a used scooter. Not just a used scooter but, an old used scooter. Then you rode it quite a bit and something happened. How in any way is that the dealers fault which would obligate them to fix anything for free.

QFT.

There's nothing hateful or mean here, but just a healthy dose of reality. If you ask for advice, don't get butthurt when it's not the advice you want to hear.


Your situation, sucky as it is, in now yours alone and don't expect anything from the dealer since you put several hundred miles on it.

One option is to find a low end scooter shop that would have cheaper rates than the dealer.

If nothing else, you've now got a bike that you can learn on - get a manual from the library, pick up a screwdriver and rent a spark tester.

[Whimscootie]

That's what I have decided to do. I work on my own bicycles and I have done some maintenance work on past scoots, so I am going to work on it myself first.
I have a lot of tools and am going to get a shop manual and use YouTube videos as necessary. It is already prepped for winter storage so it's going over this weekend and I can work on it there before the winter sets in.
Yes, there was a dose of rudeness that I am not used to seeing on this forum, but have seen it before in this poster. It continued on with another poster. ''Butthurt''? How ''not crude'' is that?

[dasscooter]

Modernvespa forum would have convinced you to sue the dealer by now.

[Whimscootie]

Modernvespa forum would have convinced you to sue the dealer by now.

''Mad radicals'' over there, eh? LOL

[Christophers]

''Butthurt''? How ''not crude'' is that?

Perhaps crude... yes.
BUT, you should consider yourself lucky.
You got a ScooterDave response. :)

ScooterDave is a wry intellect with a keen sense of humor... a Modern Buddy institution.

[sc00ter]

I purchased a used, higher miles Honda NTV650 Hawk from a local Honda dealer, AS IS, and had the headlight quit working around a month after buying it. I was at the dealership ordering a service manual for it when the lead mechanic saw me and asked how I liked the Hawk. I told him I loved it but the headlight quit working and I was going to try and figure it out. He told to bring it to the shop (I only live about 5 miles away) and he would look at it. Didnt say anything about money. He popped off a panel, bypassed a relay and LIGHTS! Told me it was a semi-known problem and there was no charge. I ended up ordering the shop pizza for being good to us annoying customers. Great shop for Honda's. So, it never hurts to ask. If you fix and keep the Met, a service manual is needed anyways....

[Syd]

If you haven't already, you might want to ask at a Honda Ruckus forum. Lots of experience there, I'd gather.

[CountChocula]

Sounds like probably a fuel pump/fuel filter. Both easy to change on a Met.

I also have a Ruckus and two Metros. And a scooter problem.

Definitely will have better results getting info/research on total ruckus and they even have a Met section. If you havent already.

But if you thought ScooterDaves reply was hateful...you may want to brace yourself. While full of information....those kids on that forum dont play so nice in the sandbox as on modernbuddy.

They definitely know their stuff, and to me pretty funny how they bash each other but it always cracks me up how ANGRY and ANIMATED people get on scooter forums.

Good luck,
The Count

[ScooterDave]

Wow! What a hateful and uncalled for reply, Dave.

I never said it was the dealer's fault and I never said I expected them to offer to fix it free of charge. I may never mention it to the dealer and I may not take it back there. I've known this dealer for years and they may offer to look at it for no or low charge if I mention it but that is not an expectation.

And yes, I know the risks of buying used. So I am not faulting anyone here. Just exploring my options and looking for helpful feedback.

Yours was not ''helpful'', it was ''hateful''. and sorry for your problems but lambasting others is never going to solve your own poor choices.

I know the scooter was sold ''as is'' and I also know that no one can predict what will happen with old sccoters that sat.

I have no ill will toward the dealer and would buy again from them, but next time new, under warranty.

This, in fact, is the first, and last, really older used scooter I have bought. Others were a year or so older and ridden frequently.

I'm not gonna sue or have a nervous breakdown over this. It may be fixable, it may not be worth it. I was planning a new purchase there in the spring so they may take it as an ''as is'' trade. We'll see. Meanwhile thanks to those with helpful comments. Scooter Dave, go get that first cup of coffee, man! You need it! LOL

No. Absolutely not. There is nothing hateful in my comment.

You posted that you bought a used scooter. Not just a used scooter but, a very old used scooter. It broke down on you. You asked what you should do and threw out ideas.

You included "Ask for a refund, store credit, trade?" and "Ask for a free repair?".

I called you out on that as it is completely absurd. There is a difference. It is called a reality check. So, you can go hug it out or whatever makes you feel good. I am trying to keep you from getting bounced out of a dealership when you ask them for a refund on the used bike you bought and rode for quite a bit. When my bikes break, and they do, I either fix them myself or pay someone to fix them. I never consider going back to the previous owner and asking them to fix it for free.

Again, owning a used scooter has a cost of admission. If you are not willing to pay that price you need to either find a different mode of transportation or buy new.

[Whimscootie]

Wow! What a hateful and uncalled for reply, Dave.

I never said it was the dealer's fault and I never said I expected them to offer to fix it free of charge. I may never mention it to the dealer and I may not take it back there. I've known this dealer for years and they may offer to look at it for no or low charge if I mention it but that is not an expectation.

And yes, I know the risks of buying used. So I am not faulting anyone here. Just exploring my options and looking for helpful feedback.

Yours was not ''helpful'', it was ''hateful''. and sorry for your problems but lambasting others is never going to solve your own poor choices.

I know the scooter was sold ''as is'' and I also know that no one can predict what will happen with old sccoters that sat.

I have no ill will toward the dealer and would buy again from them, but next time new, under warranty.

This, in fact, is the first, and last, really older used scooter I have bought. Others were a year or so older and ridden frequently.

I'm not gonna sue or have a nervous breakdown over this. It may be fixable, it may not be worth it. I was planning a new purchase there in the spring so they may take it as an ''as is'' trade. We'll see. Meanwhile thanks to those with helpful comments. Scooter Dave, go get that first cup of coffee, man! You need it! LOL

No. Absolutely not. There is nothing hateful in my comment.

You posted that you bought a used scooter. Not just a used scooter but, a very old used scooter. It broke down on you. You asked what you should do and threw out ideas.

You included "Ask for a refund, store credit, trade?" and "Ask for a free repair?".

I called you out on that as it is completely absurd. There is a difference. It is called a reality check. So, you can go hug it out or whatever makes you feel good. I am trying to keep you from getting bounced out of a dealership when you ask them for a refund on the used bike you bought and rode for quite a bit. When my bikes break, and they do, I either fix them myself or pay someone to fix them. I never consider going back to the previous owner and asking them to fix it for free.

Again, owning a used scooter has a cost of admission. If you are not willing to pay that price you need to either find a different mode of transportation or buy new.

Gotcha.

Anyway, I may sell it for a "project" scooter for anyone who wants to spend only a little money and if I can't get it running after some effort.

[k1dude]

I don't buy used or open box anything. I've spent decades of purchases regretting it. I haven't bought used or open box for about 30 years and have never looked back.

[cummingsjc]

I don't buy used or open box anything. I've spent decades of purchases regretting it. I haven't bought used or open box for about 30 years and have never looked back.

While I am glad this strategy has apparently worked out well for you, unfortunately, not all of us have the economic means to be able to do this and are sometimes forced to buy used. There are ways to be able to mitigate some of the typical problems associated with buying used products if you go about things in a reasonable way.

[giddyup98]

With the exception of my Kymco Like 200's, I bought all six of my other scooters used off CL or ebay (for much, much cheaper than new). All of them had very low miles and ran like new, unlike my new Like 200's that have had nothing but problems since I bought them. I would never buy another new scooter again. If you know what you're looking at and how well they were maintained by the previous owner(s), buying used is the way to go.

[Whimscootie]

With the exception of my Kymco Like 200's, I bought all six of my other scooters used off CL or ebay (for much, much cheaper than new). All of them had very low miles and ran like new, unlike my new Like 200's that have had nothing but problems since I bought them. I would never buy another new scooter again. If you know what you're looking at and how well they were maintained by the previous owner(s), buying used is the way to go.

Yeah, if you know the history and they are lower miles and not really old models, I agree.

I am just in a wacky hysterical mode....

UNTIL...this morning I went out to see if it would start up. Had it on the tender overnight.

ON A WHIM, and remembering something on MB about scoots and "vapor lock" I removed the gas cap and then let it breath and then put it back on.

THE SCOOTER STARTED AND RAN! I rode it a few feet and parked it and let it run on the center stand a bit more.

It stalled upon throttle, but sputtered and now I am wondering if it is bad gas or perhaps something similar causing this.

I feel there is hope so I am going to keep it and see where this goes.

At least for now!

[az_slynch]

When you uncorked the tank, did the fuel smell a bit skunkier than usual? You may also be able to siphon some out and check the fuel color. Bad gas tends to look a bit more yellow than the fresh stuff.

I took a look at the '03 CHF50 diagrams on Cheap Cycle Parts. The fuel tank diagram shows a filter netween the tank and the fuel pump. Part# is 16900-GET-003. It might be worth replacing, as it looks to be the low point in the fuel system and might be partially blocked, especially if old fuel or tank garf from all the time spent parked up has found its way there.

The early GET2 issue was with insufficient crankcase breathing and fuel vapor contaminating the oil. The contaminated oil wouldn't properly lubricate the crank bearings, leading to untimely crank bearing failures. As long as your oil still looks good, doesn't smell like gas and you change it when specified, your engine shouldn't be mortally wounded.

As for what I'd do, I'd fix the little bugger! I had loaned out an Elite 80 and it was ruined (intake valve broke apart in the motor). Spent more than the bike was worth in new parts and machining (had to have the cylinder head welded up and re-cut, ported it for funsies) but I really like the scoot. We're on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to committing repairs to our scooters, but I suspect you can get through this with a new fuel filter and some fresh fuel.

[Whimscootie]

I will keep that in mind. Right now I've been sitting here for 30 minutes, scoot on stand, gas cap off, listening to it idle smoothly. A few ''lurches'' in the cycle 5 minutes in, but smooth since.

I found the old MB threads on vapor lock and drilling a hole in the gas cap as a remedy. I will consider doing that.
.
Maybe I got some bad gas because up until this the scoot ran fine.

I am going to add fresh oil too. I forgot to mention that I did not smell any unusual odor when I popped the cap, but I was going to put fresh oil in it anyway. I can't get details on just what ''maintenance'' was done on it before I got it. I'm guessing little to none.

I knew there were issues with the 02-05 engines, but did not know just what. Your explanation was eye-opening and I thank you!

Went out last night and it started right up, idled, and throttled through.

[Whimscootie]

Sounds like probably a fuel pump/fuel filter. Both easy to change on a Met.

I also have a Ruckus and two Metros. And a scooter problem.

Definitely will have better results getting info/research on total ruckus and they even have a Met section. If you havent already.

But if you thought ScooterDaves reply was hateful...you may want to brace yourself. While full of information....those kids on that forum dont play so nice in the sandbox as on modernbuddy.

They definitely know their stuff, and to me pretty funny how they bash each other but it always cracks me up how ANGRY and ANIMATED people get on scooter forums.

Good luck,
The Count

Been a member on TR for many years and enjoy the banter and great advice over there. Love TR gang!

Thanks for your advice!

[Whimscootie]

I purchased a used, higher miles Honda NTV650 Hawk from a local Honda dealer, AS IS, and had the headlight quit working around a month after buying it. I was at the dealership ordering a service manual for it when the lead mechanic saw me and asked how I liked the Hawk. I told him I loved it but the headlight quit working and I was going to try and figure it out. He told to bring it to the shop (I only live about 5 miles away) and he would look at it. Didnt say anything about money. He popped off a panel, bypassed a relay and LIGHTS! Told me it was a semi-known problem and there was no charge. I ended up ordering the shop pizza for being good to us annoying customers. Great shop for Honda's. So, it never hurts to ask. If you fix and keep the Met, a service manual is needed anyways....

Yeah, I am getting a service manual for sure. I do know a few other Honda shops where the service shop is awesome. Not so much the one where I bought this scoot, but if I have to I can truck it over to another.

[Whimscootie]

I have been riding it since and it runs fine. Must have been some bad gas and/or vapor lock.

[Syd]

I'm glad it got sorted out.

[az_slynch]

I have been riding it since and it runs fine. Must have been some bad gas and/or vapor lock.

Best bit of news I've heard all week.

Now keep a weather eye on your oil and that Met will be fine for years!