fuel Filter and more

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VinnyP
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fuel Filter and more

Post by VinnyP »

On my 2007 Buddy 125
Where is the fuel filter?
How do I get to it?
What are the ID numbers? How do I order one?
Is it a PIA to change?
How many miles should I go before changing one?
Does anyone know where I can get my Buddy serviced in The Bronx,NY or lower Westchester County? All the nearby cycle dealers say they do not service Buddys.
Lots of question I know, thanks for any help you can offer
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Tazio
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Post by Tazio »

I replaced the fuel filter at 8000 miles on my 2007 Buddy with a generic about the size of the original. It's located as, I remember it, on the right side below the fuel tank in the line going to the carb. It was simple to change if you are prepared for the gush of fuel when you remove the old filter. I just kind of block the line with a finger until I can get the new one connected. It helps if you are very low on fuel when you do it.
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DeeDee
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Post by DeeDee »

You can get to the fuel filter by removing the seat bucket. I've been using these on Buddy 125s:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-Gas-Carb-F ... mQ&vxp=mtr

They have a magnet inside to pick up anything metallic. You don't have to worry about gas coming out of the tank while you are doing this. The petcock is vacuum activated.

Are you having fuel issues? How many miles on your scooter? Look it over with a flashlight. If it appears clean inside, you are probably good.
VinnyP
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Post by VinnyP »

Not sure if it's a problem at all. It's a little hard to start when the tank is full. When it goes to half or below it starts instantly.
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DeeDee
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Post by DeeDee »

Do you have the gas cap drilled? Might help it start easier with a full tank.
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Post by viney266 »

Just put a clamp of some sort on the fuel line above the filter; an easy way to keep your hands dry if the vacuum petcock doesn't shut off completely.
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VinnyP
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Post by VinnyP »

DeeDee wrote:Do you have the gas cap drilled? Might help it start easier with a full tank.
not sure what you mean by "drilled". Do you mean actually drilling a hole through the cap?
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Post by ucandoit »

When you state that the scoot doesn't run or start well when the gas tank is Full, it makes us think of certain issues. It's not wise to fill the gas tank completely to the brim. Don't do that. Genuine explains that in the manual. There are also issues with the gas cap not venting--vapor lock? Look at your gas cap and see if there is a small hole in the cap. My 2008 Buddy has that hole. Read about both of these issues just to get familiar about them, but I wouldn't dwell on this, because your cap is probably fine. You can find info on these issues on modern buddy site.

Changing the fuel filter, with the engine off of course, is pretty easy and a generic, inexpensive one, a few dollars, works fine. However, it is important that the diameter of your fuel line matches the diameter of the fuel filter's connectors. Some fuel filters are meant for big lines; not the Buddy.
There is a vacuum operated valve (called a fuel petcock) a small round silver object beneath the gas tank, that the fuel goes through when the engine is running, then it flows through tubing to the fuel filter, which is on the LEFT side of my Buddy 125. The filter is secured nicely there by a strap, then the fuel flows through the filter and on down the line to the carburetor. Even if the petcock valve is working & not allowing fuel to flow, (mine often sticks open), some gas will leak out of the fuel line when you remove the filter, so wear gloves if you'd like. I do. You could clamp off the fuel line when you remove the filter if you have a nice hemostat like clamp. The filter can be a little hard to twist on and off, but pretty easy. To access the filter, remove the "pet carrier", 4 bolts, under the opened seat. It lifts right out. This is very easy. Then you can see the carb. and engine, etc. more clearly.

I'd first just practice removing the pet carrier and identifying things. I ordered the original buddy filter and it came with too much stuff, so I sent it back and just bought a little plastic gas filter at a hardware type store.
Your filter may be fine, though. You can look at it and see if it's dirty or has foreign bits in it. It's really quite a simple device. Enjoy just getting to know the parts of the scoot. The carburetor is usually the problem, but maybe it's the filter. It's fun to explore and learn.
VinnyP
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Post by VinnyP »

thanks for all the input everyone. My hard starting problem has gotten worse. Now it's almost impossible to get started and when it does start it runs so poorly that it's impossible to ride. In addition to all that, it leaked some gas onto the garage floor. Going to try a new fuel filter on saturday.
Fingers crossed.
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Post by scootERIK »

There is a chance that the float it sticking open. Should be fixable just needs a good cleaning.

In the mean time when it happens you should open up the air filter to drain the gas out(I assume that the gas is draining into the air filter then onto the floor.)

My Buddy would often dump gas when the temperature at night would drop more than 20-30+ degrees and the tank was more than 3/4 full. For me the easy solution was to never park at night with more than 1/3 of a tank of gas in the fall and spring.
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DeeDee
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Post by DeeDee »

I seriously doubt the fuel filter is your culprit. Pull your plug and air filter. Are they soaked with fuel?
I'm thinking faulty petcock / and or float and needle valve issue. I suspect you will find a fuel soaked soot covered spark plug. How many miles on your scooter, and what is the maintenance history?
VinnyP
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Post by VinnyP »

DeeDee wrote:I seriously doubt the fuel filter is your culprit. Pull your plug and air filter. Are they soaked with fuel?
I'm thinking faulty petcock / and or float and needle valve issue. I suspect you will find a fuel soaked soot covered spark plug. How many miles on your scooter, and what is the maintenance history?
It has about 1800 miles. Oil has been changed regularly as has the gear oil. I changed the plug about two weeks ago. As far as I know the air filter has never been changed. If I remove the box under the seat will that give me access to the petcock and air filter?
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Post by ucandoit »

I, too, doubt that the fuel filter is your problem. My buddy leaked gas out of the air filter because 1) the petcock, which is attached to the bottom of the gas tank, did not hold back gas as it's suppose to when the engine is off. 2) the float in the carb. was stuck, letting gas leak into the engine and also out the air filter. The scooter ran poorly. Also, the carb. was dirty, which is why the float was stuck. BOTH the petcock and float must fail for gas to leak like this.

This was the biggest issue for my Buddy. It now runs well, but I had to learn A LOT: to clean the carb. (esp. the lower half), to make sure the float was in good shape and set it's height correctly, (this was difficult for me to understand); replace the stupid petcock, (I dislike them because my new one also failed me).
It took me hours and hours of watching a lot of videos and reading to understand this stuff. I didn't know anything about scooters or small engines. I took the carb. out three times to get it right, and came close to ruining it by losing small parts. I replaced the oil countless times because I knew gas was getting into the engine, which is not good.
Rushing to replace the fuel filter or air filter probably won't solve your problem. It didn't work for me.
VinnyP
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Post by VinnyP »

I pulled out the air filter and sure enough it was soaked with gas. Too far gone I thought to be used again so I ordered a new one along with a new petcock. I also ordered a fuel filter even though I too am convinced that is not the problem. Didn't have time to pull the plug but I assume that if it is wet with gas it can be dried off and reused. Just for the hell of it after I took the air filter off I tried to start it and she started up pretty easily and ran fine for maybe half a minute before I turned it off. Is there anyway to clean the carb without removing it? Not very confident of my mechanical skills. Thanks again for all the help.
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Post by Tazio »

The best way to clean the carb without removing it is is add an oz of Seafoam when you fill up. I haven't ever touched the carb on my 2007 Buddy and have about 11,000 miles on it. Always seems to run better when I add the Seafoam every 3 or 4 of fill ups.

Your air filter will still probably be OK after letting the fuel evaporate. Your plug should be OK also.
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Post by scootERIK »

VinnyP wrote:I pulled out the air filter and sure enough it was soaked with gas. Too far gone I thought to be used again so I ordered a new one along with a new petcock. I also ordered a fuel filter even though I too am convinced that is not the problem. Didn't have time to pull the plug but I assume that if it is wet with gas it can be dried off and reused. Just for the hell of it after I took the air filter off I tried to start it and she started up pretty easily and ran fine for maybe half a minute before I turned it off. Is there anyway to clean the carb without removing it? Not very confident of my mechanical skills. Thanks again for all the help.
Your air filter is probably ok. The only way you are going to fix the problem is to take the carb off and clean it. There is only a small chance that Seafoam will fix your problem. I tried running Seafoam through mine all the time, and it didn't help.

The only easy fix is to always store your scooter over night will less than a 1/4 tank of gas. Or you could install a fuel cut off between the filter and the carb then shut the fuel off and run the line empty after every use. Or at least until it warms up, mine would only do it when the temperature dropped more than 20 degrees at night.
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Post by DeeDee »

Disconnect the line feeding your carb from the petcock. You should have no gas flow coming out of this line. If you have gas pouring out, you know the petcock is bad. If there is no gas pouring out of the line, It would be safe to assume something is going on with your float / needle. This will not be that hard of a fix because you can leave your vacuum slide in place. Pull the line and report back please. you might as well fix it correctly. The Buddy fuel system is very well designed, and made out of quality materials. About the only time people run into trouble is from lack of use.

Pull your oil dipstick. Can you smell gasoline in the crankcase?

There are some excellent posts on this site with photos for taking your carb off and apart. It is not extremely hard. There are plenty of well versed individuals on this site who will chime in and help. Go slow and be thorough. You will learn a lot, and get a better understanding of how your scooter works.
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Post by VinnyP »

DeeDee wrote:Disconnect the line feeding your carb from the petcock. You should have no gas flow coming out of this line. If you have gas pouring out, you know the petcock is bad. If there is no gas pouring out of the line, It would be safe to assume something is going on with your float / needle. This will not be that hard of a fix because you can leave your vacuum slide in place. Pull the line and report back please. you might as well fix it correctly. The Buddy fuel system is very well designed, and made out of quality materials. About the only time people run into trouble is from lack of use.

Pull your oil dipstick. Can you smell gasoline in the crankcase?

There are some excellent posts on this site with photos for taking your carb off and apart. It is not extremely hard. There are plenty of well versed individuals on this site who will chime in and help. Go slow and be thorough. You will learn a lot, and get a better understanding of how your scooter works.
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Post by VinnyP »

Pulled the dipstick, that seems ok. Pulled the line going into fuel filter and only got a few drops of gas there. Not sure what to think now. Still hoping it's not a carb problem.
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Post by DeeDee »

I would wager that your have a stuck float or a needle valve issue. When your carb bowl gets filled with fuel, the float will raise causing the needle valve to seal and stop more fuel from getting into the carburetor.

Take a look at this, it will show how to remove your carb and take it a part:

viewtopic.php?t=20718&highlight=clean+125+carb

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlez_hdoWYk


While you are cleaning the carb, you can use a q-tip to clean the seat. Outside of bad fuel / lack of use these things usually don't act up.

Float isn't rising, or needle valve isn't seating, too much fuel has to go somewhere > air filter. When did you do your last oil change? I'd probably drain my oil and be sure it does not contain fuel.
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Post by VinnyP »

Here's the latest. Started it up, it started and it ran fine until I revved it a little. As soon as did it sputtered and stalled. So now I'm thinking one of the jets is clogged. What do all of you think?
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Post by k1dude »

It's beginning to sound like a stator to me. You're chasing down the wrong side of the equation. Check your plug to make sure you're getting a strong and consistent spark.
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Post by sc00ter »

I have changed 2 stators on my Buddy 125 and the first time I changed EVERYTHING BUT the stator, then our local scooter shop owner, after hearing my symptoms, said change the stator and, WOW-all good! The second dying stator was changed at the first sign of failing. What a dying stator does is the top end will start breaking up (not always noticeable if you dont ride WOT a lot), and that break up will start to creep down into the mid-range (scoot will start fine then break up and stall as you go into the throttle) and if you keep trying to ride it, it will get hard to start and the roll in on the throttle will get worse. I have found that the O.E.M. one is a direct fit and the aftermarket one (NCY) fits but needs some wires tucked. Decide on price (OEM or NCY) and change it. Bet your symptoms will go away.
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Post by scootERIK »

The stator going bad wouldn't cause it to leak gas though.


VinnyP wrote:Here's the latest. Started it up, it started and it ran fine until I revved it a little. As soon as did it sputtered and stalled. So now I'm thinking one of the jets is clogged. What do all of you think?
When my scooter would do what your scooter does I would let it idle on the stand for a few minutes blipping the throttle every so often till it would rev up then I would go out and ride it a minimum of 3-5 miles, if not longer, ideally until I was low on gas.*

Also, you might need to open up your air filter and make sure it is dry, if not leave it open to air out before trying to run your scooter.



*Go easy on the throttle, just try to get out and cruise 25-35 mph until you fell it start to run right.
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Post by k1dude »

scootERIK wrote:The stator going bad wouldn't cause it to leak gas though.
Trying to start it repeatedly would.
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Post by DeeDee »

Air filter soaked with gas, gas dripping on the floor? How are you coming up with stator?

VinnyP keeps asking the same question, hoping for a different answer. No way around it, You're going to have to pull the carb. You can pull the bowl and get to the jets from below. You will be able to leave the vacuum slide in place. Re-seating the diaphragm is what usually causes the most grief.
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Post by sc00ter »

I ASSumed he already did everything suggested up to this point, and if it was done right and the problem was still there than it is/was a stator. Stators have a mind of their own and some fail early, and if the scoot lives in NY and got ridden on salty roads, without being rinsed, the stator will suffer. You should see how bad salt and salt like treated roads eat scooters up HERE, in VA, if you dont keep then rinsed. I re-read the post and a 07 with less than 2000 miles WILL lead to fueling issues, as I do not think it was stored properly during its hardly ridden life. I think my 08 125 at 10,000 miles may need a carb overhaul, and my local shop charges $100 in labor. I can do carbs, I just hate doing them.
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Post by FromHereToThere »

DeeDee wrote:Do you have the gas cap drilled? Might help it start easier with a full tank.

Drilled my cap after I was stranded and towed.....vaporlock is real
PGO makes great scooters. That is all.
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Post by k1dude »

DeeDee wrote:Air filter soaked with gas, gas dripping on the floor? How are you coming up with stator?
Easy.

When my stator was going out, it manifested itself while riding. It would stutter, pop, lose power, and then die. Usually at WOT. I thought it was a fuel delivery problem. It would come and go. So I was doing all sorts of other stuff like drilling my cap, changing my fuel filter, checking the petcock, etc.

In the back of my mind I thought it might be the stator, but kept disregarding my subconscious.

Then the problems started to occur with greater frequency and at lower speeds. Again, it would come and go. So I kept messing with the fuel side of the equation by constantly messing with the carb. The spark plug was way too dark so I kept messing with the fuel side. I kept smelling gas and would occasionally find fuel spots on my garage floor.

Eventually it progressed to where it would start roughly and then smooth out, but you couldn't ride without it dying.

Finally it got to the point it was very difficult to even start. My air filter would get soaked and drip gas on the ground because I was flooding it. The spark plug was wet with fuel.

I had done everything humanly possible to the fuel side when I suddenly got the clue that it was my stator. My subconscious finally won out and was calling me an idiot.

So I started down the spark side of the equation working all the way to the stator. The very last component I checked. Yup. Bad stator.

Swapped it out and everything has been perfect since. I kick myself over the time, effort, and frustration thinking it was fuel related.
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Post by VinnyP »

Dee Dee is right. I have been hoping for an answer that wouldn't include pulling the carb. But it looks like that is what I'm going to have to do. I've watched the videos so I think within the next few days I'll give it a shot. Will report back.
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Post by DeeDee »

Can't argue with k1dude's logic for the stator, but I would rule out carb issue first. This will cost you nothing and it is fairly simple. Leave the big black plastic circle alone on the top. Pull the jets and soak them. I run a high e guitar string gently through them as well. That link posted further up the thread is an excellent tutorial on doing this.
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Post by DeeDee »

If you check voltage at the battery while running will that tell you if the stator is putting out enough juice?
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Post by skully93 »

DeeDee wrote:If you check voltage at the battery while running will that tell you if the stator is putting out enough juice?
I'd like to know that too. Angela's new buddy is still tough to start and has died on her at high speed a few times. It's still under warranty, but I don't really want to take it back to the warranty shop. Even if I have to pony up for a stator.
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Post by scootERIK »

DeeDee wrote:If you check voltage at the battery while running will that tell you if the stator is putting out enough juice?
Maybe? But possibly not with all stator failures. I have had two stators fail. On the 1st one the generator stopped working, this would probably show on a voltage meter. On the 2nd one the part that tells the ignition coil to fire stopped working(the pickup coil?) this probably wouldn't show up on a voltage meter, but I am not an expert.

A really good thread on stators - topic9372.html
skully93 wrote:I'd like to know that too. Angela's new buddy is still tough to start and has died on her at high speed a few times. It's still under warranty, but I don't really want to take it back to the warranty shop. Even if I have to pony up for a stator.
How many miles? Does it ever die when coming up to a stop? When it dies does it start right back up or does it take a few minutes?

The stator is cheap, I recommend the NCY one, but the installation can take some special tools, if I remember right you will at least need the flywheel puller. I had the local shop do the first one, 1.5 hours labor, I did the second one. It isn't a difficult repair, though it does take some time.
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Post by VinnyP »

Worked up some nerve and finally pulled the carb. Really wasn't hard. Got the bowl off and then both jets. The short fat one seemed fine, plenty of light coming through. The long one seems pretty clogged. No light coming through and when I blow on one end no air comes through either. Tried reaming it out with a thin wire but couldn't get it all the way through. Right now they are both soaking in parts cleaner overnight to try to loosen the crud. Don't know which one is which though. I'm assuming that since it idles just fine that the short jet is the idle jet, and since when I rev the engine it stalls, that the long clogged one is the driving jet. I have one question right now. Is the opening on the jet the same size all the way through?
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Post by DeeDee »

You might as well clean the needle valve seat with a qtip in a drill and rubbing compound while you are in there.
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Post by VinnyP »

Pulled the carb, took it apart, cleaned everything and put it all together. No dice. Bringing it into the shop tomorrow. If I get a clear diagnosis from the shop I'll post it here.
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Post by DeeDee »

VinnyP what ended up being your problem with this? Is it all squared away now?
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