what would be best for me? "Performance upgrades"

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paracer
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what would be best for me? "Performance upgrades"

Post by paracer »

I am considering picking up my first scooter in the next couple months. This would not be my first motorized, two-wheeled venture. I know I need to visit my local dealer before I make any kind of official decision, but I wanted to get a few opinions from the experts... you guys! :D

It looks like my decision is coming down to either the Buddy 125 or 170i. There are a couple local Genuine dealers in my area, so I feel good about that.

The bike would be used as daily transportation to work, and for other errands. This would be my main source of mobility for all but the coldest/snowiest months. I'm actually kinda excited about riding in less than optimal conditions.

Here's the deal, I like to tinker. I have built a couple motorized bicycles and enjoy figuring out how to make things work. That is why I am not just going for the 170i. So, what would I be making a bad decision if I went with one of the smaller displacement options, and added a larger cylinder, bigger carb, etc.

Would the 170i and its fuel injection just be that much better that I shouldn't consider one of the other options? Is the fuel injection system able to adjust for things that I might do like porting, cam, ignition, exhaust/intake mods.

Aside from the engine displacement and carb vs. FI, are there other differences between the Buddy 125 and 170i?

Thanks for reading and responding if you choose to do so!
Last edited by paracer on Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by New2Scoots »

The 170i has an oil cooler. I don't think the 125 does but I'm not certain. Not a deal breaker but if you ride where it gets over 100 in the summer it's a little peace of mind, at least for me. Gets to 112 sometimes where I live. Otherwise I don't think there's a lot of difference in speed between the two flat out. Might come down to which you can get the best deal on. Fuel injection can compensate up to a point, like for a less restrictive exhaust or intake. Beyond that may require a remap. Can be done on motorcycles, not sure if the 170i can be remapped.
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Post by sc00ter »

I have been spoiled by fuel injection, especially in the cold (Buddy 170i). That being said I have a Buddy 125 (non-EFI) and have never had a issue in really cold weather. As much as I preach to the masses over the kick starter on the 125, I have only ever had to use it when the battery was giving a death warning and I was to lazy to take care of it right away. Either would be a good choice, as they are Buddy scooters, so it would interesting to see what others say. Pick by favorite color? Price difference? Tempting used/demo model for less money with accessories included? You got ME confused!
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Post by paracer »

Okay, so the 170i has an oil cooler. Does it have a pump that feeds the oiling system, or does it just circulate oil through the cooler?

The remapping of the ecu is a good point. That means more money spent at the shop for dyno time. I prefer reading the spark plug and changing jets. It is cheaper.

I think I might be leaning towards the 125 at the moment.
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Post by New2Scoots »

It just circulates oil though the cooler. It's bolted to the bottom of the engine & I would guess it could be bolted to the 125 if needed but I'd have to ask my dealer to be certain about that.
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Post by lovemysan »

I like to tinker as well but the maintenance is pretty high on my kitted 125. It's makes a lot more power than a 170i. I had to do a crank at 10k miles. Transmission bearings at 9k(only had one starting to go bad). Burned through the ncy clutch in 1500 miles. Scored the ncy variator on the first ride by getting the face too hot(lesson learned, bed the new belt in before horsing around). I'm doing an oil change every 500 miles too. The oil turns dark fast. Idk if it's because I ride it hard. One thing to note is these engines like to run lean. Max power is made at 13.7 - 14 to one air fuel ratio. At lot of guys think 12-1 is optimal and it isn't. I've also found plug reading takes forever before the plug gets in color in it. I run a koso wide band for tuning. I raced a stock 170i and he was 80lbs lighter. It was pretty close in the 0-30. I have no doubt he would have more top end. I set my bike up to run fastest in 0-40 mph range. I don't care much about too end.
161cc big bore kit, NCY big valve head Hand ported, NCY transmission kit, jetted and tuned. I can port your cylinder head.
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Post by DeeDee »

What elevation are you at, and how much do you weigh? I've owned both, a 125 and currently 170i. I like the 125 better. The 170i is a bit more powerful, but not a whole lot. My 125 felt smother than the 170i as well. Seemed to be smoother acceleration and less engine noise and vibration. The fuel system on a 125 is a bullet proof tried and true design. Very little mystery in the workings of the 125. Your 170i starts acting strange, and it is a whole different story.
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Re: what would be best for me?

Post by skipper20 »

paracer wrote:I am considering picking up my first scooter in the next couple months. This would not be my first motorized, two-wheeled venture. I know I need to visit my local dealer before I make any kind of official decision, but I wanted to get a few opinions from the experts... you guys! :D

It looks like my decision is coming down to either the Buddy 125 or 170i. There are a couple local Genuine dealers in my area, so I feel good about that.

The bike would be used as daily transportation to work, and for other errands. This would be my main source of mobility for all but the coldest/snowiest months. I'm actually kinda excited about riding in less than optimal conditions.

Here's the deal, I like to tinker. I have built a couple motorized bicycles and enjoy figuring out how to make things work. That is why I am not just going for the 170i. So, what would I be making a bad decision if I went with one of the smaller displacement options, and added a larger cylinder, bigger carb, etc.

Would the 170i and its fuel injection just be that much better that I shouldn't consider one of the other options? Is the fuel injection system able to adjust for things that I might do like porting, cam, ignition, exhaust/intake mods.

Aside from the engine displacement and carb vs. FI, are there other differences between the Buddy 125 and 170i?

Thanks for reading and responding if you choose to do so!
You should also take a good look at the Genuine Hooligan 170i. You get a lot more bang for your buck and it goes faster than either the Buddy 125 or 170i. My dealer thinks it's the front end ergonomics and the larger 12" wheels and tires that gives it the speed advantage. I'm not arguing with him. I just like the way it goes and the way it handles.

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia (AZ scoot)
'14 170i Hooligan :)
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Post by BuddyRaton »

A Buddy 125 with a 161 kit, open the air box, bigger carb and a pipe will smoke the snot out of a 170.. It will try to wheelie out from under you if you're not careful!

As far as temp, I have never heard of a 125 motor overheating, even kitted.
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Post by Dooglas »

New2Scoots wrote:The 170i has an oil cooler. I don't think the 125 does but I'm not certain.
The 125 does not have an oil cooler. On the other hand, I have seen no indication that a stock 125 needs one. I think it is safe to speculate that PGO added the oil cooler to the 170 because it showed a tendency to overheat under some circumstances.
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Reommendation

Post by ahorsewithnoname »

Hold off till spring for a kick-125

http://scooterworkschicago.com/shop/gen ... -kick-125/

Good Luck
Greatgrandpop
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Post by paracer »

Thanks for all the great responses! This is truely more than I anticipated and I love it.

I kinda figured that the oil cooler system just feeds the cooler. The engine would have to be totally different to feed pressurized oil to the bearing surfaces.

Extra maintenance would be expected. I am very used to performing extra maintenance. Something always needed adjusting on my old motorized bicycles.

Elevation isn't too bad around here. I would be operating at no more than 1200' above sea level. That would only be if I rode to the top of the highest hill here in Central Pennsylvania. I do like the simplicity of a carb system.

I understand that Hooligan may perform a bit better, but I'm not a fan of the style. I just like the buddy a little more.

Thanks guys for the information. It is all really appreciated.
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Post by Tazio »

I have an 8 1/2 year old 125 that I ride often in S Ca mountains and in 100+ temperatures. Do ALL my own maintenance and have had zero problems. Have never had to touch the carb.
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Re: Reommendation

Post by lovemysan »

ahorsewithnoname wrote:Hold off till spring for a kick-125

http://scooterworkschicago.com/shop/gen ... -kick-125/

Good Luck
Greatgrandpop
The gas tank in the floor and high floor board are a deal breaker for me. Every scoot I've sat on with a floor mounted tank has been uncomfortable. I don't like my knees to be higher than my hips. I'm 6' tall though. The buddy is just barely big enough.
161cc big bore kit, NCY big valve head Hand ported, NCY transmission kit, jetted and tuned. I can port your cylinder head.
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Post by paracer »

The buddy kick seems like it would be great for some, but not for me. It has more of the vintage look which I like, but I don't like the plastic vintage. I do like the sheetmetal stella.

The Fuel Injection would be a dealbreaker as well based on the conversation in this thread. That is, tuning would require a wideband o2 sensor or dyno time. Neither of which I am interested in.
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Post by sc00ter »

My old Buddy 125 has been modded and put back to stock at least 3 times. I sell it stock, end up buying it back modded-put it back to stock, them repeat all over again. Its currently being offered back to me for $400 but my wifes old Buddy 125 is kinda stock and has less miles, and I dont need a 2nd/back-up Buddy 125. So, that being said, the Buddy 125 is a great AND durable platform for tuning because of the old school carb and overall simplicity. Also doesn't hurt that Buddies are fun to ride and look good for a "plastic fantastic".
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Post by paracer »

I think I have come to a bit of a decision. I think the Buddy 125 is for me. I miss having an ongoing project, and this is going to soothe my itch nicely. This is going to be a good Spring. :)

My plan will be to change over to the 161 cylinder, big valve head, hi po camshaft (if one is available, haven't found one that I know will work), and NCY exhaust. I will be doing some port work on the head and exhaust manifold if needed.

I know I will need to play around with at least the main jet in the carb.

Questions:
For this setup, would the stock carb be at least ok? If I need to upgrade right from the start, fine, but I would like to at least get going as it is.

From what I have read, the stock airbox/filter is fine. Is this true?

Are there any other exhaust options other than NCY and Prima? From what I ready, the NCY option is a little bit higher quality.

Will I trash the stock clutch and transmission with this setup? I will be planning to upgrade that as well, but I want to at least get the engine broken in before then.

Thanks all!
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Post by lovemysan »

Cams are funny. The 125 has a different cam gear than the common gy6 cam. You can use any cam by having the stock gear pressed onto the new camshaft. Next the stock valve springs are not stiff enough. I'm using taidA springs. The ncy springs had coil bind. I tried an a9 cam and the retainer hit the valve seal. I ended up using an a12. The moral of the story is cams arnt always plug and play.
161cc big bore kit, NCY big valve head Hand ported, NCY transmission kit, jetted and tuned. I can port your cylinder head.
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Post by paracer »

lovemysan wrote:Cams are funny. The 125 has a different cam gear than the common gy6 cam. You can use any cam by having the stock gear pressed onto the new camshaft. Next the stock valve springs are not stiff enough. I'm using taidA springs. The ncy springs had coil bind. I tried an a9 cam and the retainer hit the valve seal. I ended up using an a12. The moral of the story is cams arnt always plug and play.
That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Thank you! Are cam gears located on the camshaft with pins or some other method to ensure that the timing is correct?
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Post by RoaringTodd »

I'd suggest checking out Carlisle Cycle and Scooter as a dealer near you in Harrisburg. They've done me well over the last few years. Bill is very knowledgeable of those products. I just bought a roughhouse 50 from him.
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Post by skipper20 »

paracer wrote:I think I have come to a bit of a decision. I think the Buddy 125 is for me. I miss having an ongoing project, and this is going to soothe my itch nicely. This is going to be a good Spring. :)

My plan will be to change over to the 161 cylinder, big valve head, hi po camshaft (if one is available, haven't found one that I know will work), and NCY exhaust. I will be doing some port work on the head and exhaust manifold if needed.

I know I will need to play around with at least the main jet in the carb.

Questions:
For this setup, would the stock carb be at least ok? If I need to upgrade right from the start, fine, but I would like to at least get going as it is.

From what I have read, the stock airbox/filter is fine. Is this true?

Are there any other exhaust options other than NCY and Prima? From what I ready, the NCY option is a little bit higher quality.

Will I trash the stock clutch and transmission with this setup? I will be planning to upgrade that as well, but I want to at least get the engine broken in before then.

Thanks all!
Before you make the big leap, keep in mind that the relatively small 10" wheels and tires on Buddy scooters were likely designed for speeds up to 60 mph and no more than that. In fact, I'd highly recommend that you test drive a Buddy be it a 125, 150 or 170 and push it up to 60 and see how you feel about it. If you feel safe by all means go for a Buddy.

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in Tucson
'12 170i Italia (AZ scoot)
'14 170i Hooligan
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Post by paracer »

RoaringTodd wrote:I'd suggest checking out Carlisle Cycle and Scooter as a dealer near you in Harrisburg. They've done me well over the last few years. Bill is very knowledgeable of those products. I just bought a roughhouse 50 from him.
I plan to do just that. I don't want to pester them until I am ready to test ride and make a purchase. Thanks!
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Post by paracer »

skipper20 wrote:Before you make the big leap, keep in mind that the relatively small 10" wheels and tires on Buddy scooters were likely designed for speeds up to 60 mph and no more than that. In fact, I'd highly recommend that you test drive a Buddy be it a 125, 150 or 170 and push it up to 60 and see how you feel about it. If you feel safe by all means go for a Buddy.

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in Tucson
'12 170i Italia (AZ scoot)
'14 170i Hooligan
Thanks Bill! I don't plan on riding at the ragged edge even if it seems that I may want to do that based on a discussion of modifications. I will certainly be checking out and riding before I make a purchase.

I plan on using the bike for daily transportation to my job about 7 miles each way. I live in a small city that lends itself well to scooting. I think I would also like to take longer roadtrips from time to time.
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Post by paracer »

So, I just put down a deposit today... For a 10th anniversary 125. Thanks Carlisle Cycle and Scooter!

I can't freakin' wait!!
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Post by Syd »

I think you'll like it. Congrats!
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Post by paracer »

After reading up a ton, putting more that 3000 miles on my scooter, and wearing my thinking cap to bed each night, I think I have a plan.

Come November, I will be making a few modifications to get a little closer to what I want out of my scooter.

Here's what I'm thinking:
- Replace the airbox with a uni style filter and maybe a bit of intake duct to allow the airflow to smooth out a bit.
- big valve head with stiff valve springs. I will ease the intake and exhaust ports a bit with a die grinder. Port matching, maybe a bit more if it looks like it would be helpful.
- 161 kit.
- Prima exhaust.
- larger rear tire. I think I've read that there is the ability to increase the diameter a bit without modifying anything under there. This ought to get a few more MPH out of the bike.
- NCY cdi. From what I read, it seems that people have good things to say about this one.
- Windscreen. It's gonna be cold out there...

That's my plan for the engine. I will break the thing in and tune it over the winter. Then, in the spring I will come up with a plan for the transmission. I had been thinking about throwing a few parts at the transmission with the engine mods, but I now think that might be doing too much at once.

I know there is some debate regarding the big valve head. It seems like a 50/50 chance whether it helps or not. I'm going to give it a shot, I think.

My intent is to have a bike that is all around more fun to ride, maybe is happier cruising at a higher speed, and gets out in front of traffic a little better in the city. Oh, and I love to tinker. I'm not afraid of tearing apart my bike. You can expect pictures as I dig in, too.

I have a couple questions...
What range of jets would I be in? I am going to buy a few, but I would love to know where I might start.
Anyone know what tire size would work well?

I'm also open to opinions, concerns, etc.
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Post by viney266 »

with an open filter you will end up on one side or the other of a 125 main with the stock carb.
The tire? 100/90-10 instead of the 3.50 -10. its 11mm wider in the michelin S1. I run them myself.
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Post by paracer »

Thanks Bill. That gives me a good starting point on the jet.

So that tire, being 11mm wider, pushes the diameter a bit once it is squeezed onto the rim. That might get me a little closer.

I will be in contact here in a couple months with my shopping list.
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Post by paracer »

per this thread (viewtopic.php?t=23270&highlight=tire) it appears that a 130/70-10 will fit.

Does this sound reasonable? If not I will go the route of the 100/90.
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Post by jd »

Good plan, although you ought to be aware that the Prima pipe is unlikely to add any top end. It will, however, add lots of "look at me" noise.

If you want to feel some significant changes in your Buddy's performance, you might want to focus on the suspension, too. The 2009 Genuine Blackjack had an NCY billet racing fork, NCY adjustable pre-load and dampening rear shock, and an NCY front disc brake with dual piston caliper. Those bits made a helluva difference in the handling performance. If you ride curves a lot, the difference is not subtle.
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Post by k1dude »

paracer wrote:per this thread (viewtopic.php?t=23270&highlight=tire) it appears that a 130/70-10 will fit.

Does this sound reasonable? If not I will go the route of the 100/90.
130/70-10 is what you want for the rear.
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Post by paracer »

jd wrote:Good plan, although you ought to be aware that the Prima pipe is unlikely to add any top end. It will, however, add lots of "look at me" noise.
Interesting. Is there a better option, or should I just not expect any change from a 'performance' exhaust? NCY, Generic GY6? Is there a universal header that I can couple with a supertrapp clamp on muffler?
jd wrote:If you want to feel some significant changes in your Buddy's performance, you might want to focus on the suspension, too. The 2009 Genuine Blackjack had an NCY billet racing fork, NCY adjustable pre-load and dampening rear shock, and an NCY front disc brake with dual piston caliper. Those bits made a helluva difference in the handling performance. If you ride curves a lot, the difference is not subtle.
That's also good to know. The 10th anniversary edition has supposedly tuned suspension components (stiffer front spring, piggyback rear shock with preload adjustment), but I'm sure the really good stuff would be even better. That might be for next summer. The front brakes on the 10th anniversary bike are also upgraded over stock (wave rotor), but the disc isn't any larger than stock. That might be a good upgrade at some point, too.
Last edited by paracer on Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by paracer »

k1dude wrote:
paracer wrote:per this thread (viewtopic.php?t=23270&highlight=tire) it appears that a 130/70-10 will fit.

Does this sound reasonable? If not I will go the route of the 100/90.
130/70-10 is what you want for the rear.
Thanks!
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Post by dasscooter »

If you want to mod, save yourself a couple grand and pick up a used 125. You will be replacing all the wear items anyway, and once you touch a new bike with a performance part your warranty is donezo.

Edit: looks like you already bought the new one.
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Post by paracer »

dasscooter wrote:If you want to mod, save yourself a couple grand and pick up a used 125. You will be replacing all the wear items anyway, and once you touch a new bike with a performance part your warranty is donezo.

Edit: looks like you already bought the new one.
Yep. Mine is new. What I like about the warranty is that Genuine stands behind the bikes that they sell. That gives me confidence to know that, most likely, nothing will happen during the warranty period.
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Post by Roofaloof »

Congrats on the new scoot! I've done some similar mods as you're talking about on my 150cc Blackjack and can comment.
For this setup, would the stock carb be at least ok? If I need to upgrade right from the start, fine, but I would like to at least get going as it is.
The stock carb should be fine to get you going.
From what I have read, the stock airbox/filter is fine. Is this true?
I disagree. The stock airbox has a convoluted and narrow air path. There are a number of intake options out there that are better for performance. I built my own, which I personally think is better :) viewtopic.php?t=25345&highlight=roofaloof
Will I trash the stock clutch and transmission with this setup?
You might, eventually. The stock parts seem pretty stout. I've done about 3k miles of hard city riding after my mods and these parts are holding up fine.

The Buddy is a great scoot to tinker with! There's a ton of reasonably priced part options out there.
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Post by lovemysan »

I recently went to a unifilter. If you want to run the stock airbox get a 120 main and drill 1/4 holes till its happy I ended up with 6-7. Also in cold weather I would cover some of them till it was happy again. My box had a drilled drain, deleted divider and snorkel as well.

For the unifilter I bought a chrome 1.5" drain pipe. I cut the airbox off the stock rubber tube and reused the rubber tube. put a section of the pipe between the filter and the tube and its perfect.

For the head you will want to work it over. I'd grab a single cut 1/8" ball bur and the a cartridge roll selection. The area around the valve seats, inner radius is usually terrible on ALL heads. I spent about 6-8 hours on my first head to get where I liked it. I also smoother out the chamber and unshrouded the valves while I was in there. Do not buy the "titanium electroplated gold springs" they suck. Get them taida springs. They are good. Might as well use titanium retainers while your at it.

I had an issue with the a9 cam and my NCY head. The retainer would hit the valve seal. I ended up running an a12.
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161cc big bore kit, NCY big valve head Hand ported, NCY transmission kit, jetted and tuned. I can port your cylinder head.
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Post by paracer »

Roofaloof, Thanks for your reply. I'm pretty sure at this point that I will ditch the air box and use a pod style filter.

Lovemysan, Thanks! If I do end up having to use the airbox for a while, I will chop it up as you describe. Do the holes restrict airflow, or do they serve to just reduce the velocity of the air in the system? I'd rather not tune by restricting airflow. That would also reduce power output.

I've seen a few people use drain fittings for an intake tract, and I think I will too.

That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for about porting. That sounds like fun and no where near as tedious as the intake and cylinder head set that I did not my old Taurus SHO. Two sets of intake runners, two plenums, and two cylinder heads. A total of 48 ports to grind with a Dremel.
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Post by paracer »

Just a super quick update...

I made a bit of a purchase last night.

I have a 161 kit, high flow head, 125 jet, and a windscreen coming to me. I'm psyched!

The exhaust will wait until later, and I will modify the stock intake system for now.

I will be setting up an appointment for a tire some time before Christmas.

In case anyone cares, the white wall tire that comes on the 10th anniversary Buddy lasted about 4000 miles before the middle groove disappeared.
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Post by JettaKnight »

Nice. You're going to have fun with that stuff.

That's about as long as my whitewalls lasted. I switched to Michelin tires - they perform so much better.
paracer
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Post by paracer »

In case anyone cares, here's the details on the cylinder head. I found it on the Scrappy Dog website. No indication of the actual manufacturer. I will see if I can post more details and pictures when it arrives.

"Performance race cylinder head for the 157QMJ gy6 150cc and up four stroke chinese scooter/atv engines. Fits, but is not limited to the Roketa, Sym, Tank, VIP, Tank, Sunl, Vento, etc.
Ruima Taiwanese quality cast cylinder head is the same quality used for Honda's contract manufacturing. This big port head has extra sized ports, nitrated HD valve springs, titanium valve keeper, sodium filled and coated valves, and is a much better performer than stock. This is specifically for the 59mm big bore kit we sell, or for your own. It will also fit other cylinder sizes.
I would recommend using our performance CVK 32mm carb kit with performance manifold to take full advantage of this head.I would recommend our Ruima performance head and CVK carb kit to take full advantage of this upgrade.
125cc and 150cc, 155cc, and other import from China or Taiwan, PGO, BUGRIDER, Bugxter, KYMCO: GY6 125cc and 150cc scooters.
HONDA: GY6 125CC, SYM GY6 150cc VENTO: Phantom R4i 125cc 150cc, Strada RX150, Yamati, Verucci, Baccio, Viva, Matrix, Wuzzi, Lifan and Clones fitted to most GY6 base engines: Scooters, Buggies, ATVs and Quads."
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

Good luck with your upgrades. Done right, it makes a significant difference for your scooter's performance.
I'd like to make a couple of comments: don't use a 32mm carb, or even a 30mm carb. Unless you plan on riding with a wide open throttle 90% of the time, the stock carb is perfectly fine and will give much crisper throttle response, not to mention better MPG around town. Your stock MJ is probably a 102. I suggest trying a 115 as a starting point then final tune from there.
Make sure the BBK you bought is for a 125 and not a 150, their wrist pins are not the same size; 13mm for the 125, 15mm for the 150.

Have fun!
Some people can break a crowbar in a sandbox.
paracer
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Post by paracer »

Thanks!

I am not planning on a larger carb. The bbk is the Prima kit made for the buddy 125.

I might pick up a couple jets. The 125 jet might have been left over from when I had planned on doing an exhaust and open element air filter at the same time. I think that will be saved for the springtime. I will pick up a smaller jet if it is needed.
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RoaringTodd
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Post by RoaringTodd »

Question - you bought a Chinese cylinder head (and kit?) from a website instead of going to your dealer and purchasing a Genuine BBK from them?

Curious as to why?

I have a RH50 and I plan to have him install a 70cc BBK once the warranty expires. I'd feel more secure knowing that the dealer will stand behind the part and the labor.
Just because I am Deaf ... does not mean I can't roar.
paracer
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Post by paracer »

By the way, everything came in the mail yesterday.

Right. I did purchase these parts online. I am at the mercy of a tight budget and a wife who has the authority to deny whatever plan I might cook up. I like to keep her on her good side. :)

I'm not opposed to visiting my dealer. Heck, I will be going back for a tire and an oil filter pretty soon.

The cylinder kit is the Prima branded kit. This appears to be an NCY jug (the logo is laser etched into it), with a different piston to allow it to be used with the Buddy 125 wrist pin. The parts were shipped out of Chicago. I would be pretty certain this is the same piece that a dealer would supply.

The head, I will admit, was a bit of a gamble. I'm not Smokey Yunick, but The head looks okay. I am excited to try it out. I would like to do a bit of port work on both the exhaust and intake side at some point. This might wait until spring, though.

Given the uncertainty of the cylinder head, I am glad to see that the Prima cylinder kit comes with an array of base gaskets and an aluminum spacer. I ill play with these for clearance and compression.
dasscooter
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Post by dasscooter »

Your Genuine dealer can order aftermarket parts from Scooterworks and make money to keep their doors open while still selling the part to you at the same price as online. You might even get a discount.
paracer
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Post by paracer »

Update! It runs!

I just finished installing the big bore kit and cylinder head.

A few notes...

I measured the valve and port diameters for the stock and aftermarket cylinder heads. Here's the breakdown:

Stock port 22.2mm intake, exhaust 22mms
Stock valve 23.9mm intake, exhaust 21.1

Aftermarket port 27.6 intake, exhaust 26mm
Aftermarket valve 27.9 intake, exhaust 22.8mm.

The inside of the ports looked similar to the stock head, so I worked them over with a Dremel to open them up, especially in the valve guide area.

Anyway, the bike runs. I picked up a 120 jet this morning. I'm pretty sure it's too small. I had to tape over the intake to block off enough airway to get the bike to be happy running around town. I think I'm going to end up around a 126 jet size. I also drilled a vent hole in the dipstick as I noticed some pulsing.

I can tell the bike has more torque as soon as I roll away from a stop. It sounds mean with the intake opened up. This is going to be fun :twisted:

Up next, an oil and filter change. Yawn.
lovemysan
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Post by lovemysan »

I'm surprised a 120 is small. I ran a 120 with 'my setup. I finally up jetted after I did the unifilter+chrome sink tailpiece intake. Went to a 145 after that. I'm curious about your head. The add says sodium filled valves, titanium retainers, and he springs. The picture shows what looks
Like a steel retainer. The sodium filled valves idk how you would tell just by looking.

Have you done a cam yet? I'm running an a12, you have to swap the cam gears. I used a big vice, fire, and some different sized pipes and sockets to do mine. You possibly could run the a9, the retainer hit the valve seal on mine. Cams are cheap too. Paid $20 each for mine.
161cc big bore kit, NCY big valve head Hand ported, NCY transmission kit, jetted and tuned. I can port your cylinder head.
paracer
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Post by paracer »

I have no idea whether the quoted stats on the head are accurate. The valves didn't taste salty. I'm happy to have a head with larger ports and valves. I don't mind the other parts being no better than stock.

I desperately need to find a better way to vent crankcase pressure. I drilled a passageway through the dipstick, but it sprays oil all over the exhaust. It smokes like a 2T.

I didn't know exactly where to start on jetting. Aside from the big bore kit and head, I did open up the intake. I pulled the rubber baffle, removed the snorkel after the air box, and trimmed the area around the air box inlet to make the hole as large as possible. All the trimming occurred on the air filter, outside of where it seals to the air box. To get the bike to run I had to cover most of that opening.
lovemysan
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Post by lovemysan »

I've never had in crankcase breathing issues. I always do a hard break in.
161cc big bore kit, NCY big valve head Hand ported, NCY transmission kit, jetted and tuned. I can port your cylinder head.
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