Modern Buddy

Somewhere in my foggy past I remember reading about a gov't report of the life expectancy of motorscooters, and the engines associated with them. Does anyone else remember this? [(corrected text) <50 cc was only good for 6K miles, and 5 years and limited to 36.5 mph; 50 to 170 cc for 12K, limited to 55 mph; and 170+ cc for 32,5K miles and 12.5 years?] but when I read the report I thought it was skewed anyway. OTOH, my 93 Yamaha Riva 125 blew up on me with only 12,500 on it. I haven't ever figured out if that engine was designed to be rebuilt after so many miles, or if it was my fault for tending to run it all the time at the upper end of the RPM band. [So by this standard, my 12 year old Riva had exceeded it's useful life.] ( I was on the 99 freeway at 12:30 AM doing about 60. )
I guess I wondering if I ought to plan on a rebuild of any of my modern stuff down the road.
What kind of high mileage units are out there? What have you done to get the mileage on you scoot? TIA, Jim
Edit: Update. in brackets. I found the EPA document. EPA420R-03-016 pages 43 to 47, and I have corrected my text above. From what I'm reading and in the "real world" YMMV

My Buddy 125 is just short of 17k and shows no signs of breaking down. The only maintenance I've ever had done on it is the standard oil changes.

I've ridden it all over the place--in city at normal speeds (up to 50-60 bmph) and across country at WOT for long periods of time.

If you regularly maintain them, keep everything lubed, & don't push it WOT for long periods of time, I don't see why they wouldn't run 60-70k miles? Of course, I don't really know for sure...

EDIT: I just realized you have a stella, so you'd have to replace cables & rubber stuff too... since it's a 4T I don't think you'd have to rebuild it all the time like a 2T, but the clutch will wear out eventually. on a Buddy, belts & rollers are a given.

Bonegirl had over 40,000 on her's and Genuine bought her a new Blackjack last year. As far as I know, her 125 was still running just fine. I believe they have it on display at their headquarters.

Rail 50 wrote:Somewhere in my foggy past I remember reading about a gov't report of the life expectancy of motorscooters, and the engines associated with them. Does anyone else remember this? something like 50 cc was only good for 12K miles...

I am really hoping this is inaccurate as applied to the Buddy engine, because I'm at 10.2K and really not itching to go shopping. I'm currently getting some of the best gas mileage since I bought it; is that a warning sign?

I'm at 22k on my Buddy 150

My Stella 2T has 12K miles. I do believe I have one of the best running Stellas ever. Stella has never had anything done except a couple of spark plugs and gear oil changes. No electrical problems either.

Howard

Those numbers are ridiculously low but I wonder if what type of scooter was involved, performance modifications and how they were maintained was any kind of consideration.

Unsure of realistic life expectancy of the Stella 4T; it's pretty new.

But the key is to properly maintain the scooter and keep it pretty close to stock.

My very non-stock Vespa LX blew its top end at around 25K. That was with some super-hard riding, pushing the limits. Essentially, my own damn fault.

There are a number of Buddy 125/150s out there with over 30K, some with over 40K, a number with over 50K. That's for scooters that debuts in 2006, which is why there aren't more with higher miles.

Honestly, good quality scooters will more often die from neglect or being crashed than the engine going kaput for whatever reason.

Hey Eric, was that non-stock LX the one you took the video from with Skootz ahead of you? Curious as to the list of stuff you did to it.

Raiderfn31 wrote:Hey Eric, was that non-stock LX the one you took the video from with Skootz ahead of you? Curious as to the list of stuff you did to it.

Yep. Malossi 190 kit, Malossi Multivar variator (since replaced by a Polini) with heavy weight combo for top speeds, Sito+ exhaust. After all that, I had a LX that went faster than an LX probably should. I'm still putting a 190 in the new top end, but only because I want the extra power for long rides, mountains, etc. But I need to slow down a bit anyways and quit riding the thing at 80mph just because I can.

ericalm wrote:There are a number of Buddy 125/150s out there with over 30K, some with over 40K, a number with over 50K. That's for scooters that debuts in 2006, which is why there aren't more with higher miles.

A bit like wondering why there are no Baby Boomers who've died in their 70s or 80s, or celebrated 50th wedding anniversaries.

That makes me feel good. I have 7 miles on mine . I hope to keep the scoots I have for a loooong time, mostly because if I came home with another the wife would shoot me.

I really do love the little things, and plan to keep out of the car as much as possible.

my 2008 zuma has over 15000 miles on it
it has 5000 on the current top end and is modded extensivley
and its still on the oem crank

over on zf we have had several with over 20,000 on stock zuma 50s on the original top end no rering

heck we even had one hit 30,000 miles over there

now my stella 2 stroke thats a diffrent story some where aroudn 2000 miles the oem crank took a crap on me

and then after i rebuilt the engine i got another 2000 miles before i blew something up in the trans but then again i went a bit over board when i rebuilt the engine it was kitted ported a nice expansion pipe and so on and so on
i had it up to 70 at 3/4 throttle and never had the nerve to take it past that point

I'm sure stock anything goes eternally. Most people just don't leave them stock. My zuma already had some decent mods .

I just broke 10k on my 125 and feel like it's just broken in, running better than ever. Just changed plug, belt, and rollers but even all that was in great shape

My St. Tropez is just about to turn over to 19K. That is about 18,997 pure pleasure miles. It was cold and raining for the other three.

I've heard of many scoots, of all sizes, not needing anything other than standard maintenance until they're over 50k or 60k. Even then, they'll keep going fine as long as you check them over often enough and have the sense to replace parts when they're needed.

Skootz Kabootz wrote:My St. Tropez is just about to turn over to 19K. That is about 18,997 pure pleasure miles. It was cold and raining for the other three.

Hehehe

I now have over 13K on my Buddy 50. I didn't expect to get that far before winter set in, but weather patterns have been freaky, and I got another cool but dry and sunny ride in over lunch today. Snow and/or subfreezing temps are expected for the forecastable future, starting tonight.

I just rode a buddy 50 with over 14k on a stock motor a few weeks back. It ran FINE. Even with my 250 lbs on it.

^ fyi, Buddys measure in miles not k.

I have ridden bubu's before (what an asian buddy is) and they are in K's. The one I rode has over 36,000 K and was likely poorly maintained (beater tourist rental). ran just great.

peabody99 wrote:^ fyi, Buddys measure in miles not k.

"K" means "thousand" (in this case miles). If I meant "kilometers", I'd write "km".

TVB wrote:I now have over 13K on my Buddy 50.

Nice milestone! I bet Genuine loves of hearing that.

Just crossed 10,000 miles yesterday.

Crossing 2800 miles.

I just hit 1000 yesterday

Is scooter longevity also limited by fatigue-failure of the frame itself? Every 1000 miles of riding subjects the frame, and its welds, to road bounce and vibration and the resulting cyclic loading. If I rode a scooter with 30K miles on it, I would start to worry about the frame experiencing a fracture during riding. Any thoughts?

i have yet to read anything about frame breakage on quality scoots, the Buddy included. many tens of thousands of hard rode miles on many good scoots with no frame failure under normal use

that said i am sure it does happen. might it pose a safety risk? only if it happens at a critical weld point when riding, i would think?

in my unqualified opinion its highly unlikely. of all the dangers of riding a frame breaking on a good scooter should be low on the list

I'm no engineer, but I would think there are 1000 weaker joints before the frame. the forks, handlebars, shocks, etc. also, the Buddy scoots are made out of plastic panels and rubber bands, which is GOOD. much as I want to summon the $4500 necessary for the beat up but fresh vespa gts 300 super at the local shop, I know the buddy is immortal. if I replace every plastic on it, $600!

Of course, I'll probably have htat much in mirrors on it by then...

There's at least one Buddy that reached 40,000 miles without the frame giving out in any way. I'm sure there are Vespas out there with a lot more miles than that.

davidscooter wrote:Is scooter longevity also limited by fatigue-failure of the frame itself? Every 1000 miles of riding subjects the frame, and its welds, to road bounce and vibration and the resulting cyclic loading. If I rode a scooter with 30K miles on it, I would start to worry about the frame experiencing a fracture during riding. Any thoughts?

There are some scooters that I would worry about this on. The Buddy's not one of them.

The statistics seem way off. I'm curious where they came up with those numbers. Perhaps the statistics are skewed because of cheap junk China scooters.

It sounds like someone is trying to sell david a MC.

k1dude wrote:The statistics seem way off. I'm curious where they came up with those numbers. Perhaps the statistics are skewed because of cheap junk China scooters.

They're not statistics. I think he's just saying that riding the scooter subjects the frame to stresses, and some of that wear is cumulative.

I've never heard of the frame breaking on any quality make of scooter for any reason other than the scooter being crashed. However, there's plenty of documentation of bad frame welds and busted frames on the lower-end Chinese scooters, especially the sub-$1000 Internet specials.

My 1987 Honda elite has just over 28,000 on it, and rides like a champ, with just regular maintainence. Lots of long trips and WOT riding at 80mph

My Buddy 125's engine was toast at just over 18,000 miles and had to be replaced. But I ride WOT quite a bit too.

TVB is embarrassing me. I'm about to roll over 5,000 on my 50 after 4 years of ownership (to be fair I've also put about 2,000 on my Super 8 that I later acquired ).

I sure hope I don't lose her in another 1,000 miles. I'm replacing weights and belt if not more this year.

My Buddy 125 just reached 30k miles yesterday and it's still running great! I take it on long distance trips, I commute to work on it....I don't have a car so I ride my scooter full time. I have replaced the clutch, a belt, a wheel bearing, and some roller weights, and I ALWAYS make sure it has regular oil changes and I keep the tires changed too. Many times, I'll take it to the shop and tell the mechanic to look it over completely and just fix anything that needs to be fixed. This usually helps to identify any problems early on so that they don't become major problems later. I'm prepared to drop a new engine in that thing one day, I don't care how much it costs lol.

Rail 50 wrote:Somewhere in my foggy past I remember reading about a gov't report of the life expectancy of motorscooters, and the engines associated with them. Does anyone else remember this? [ <50 cc was only good for 6K miles, and 5 years and limited to 36.5 mph; 50 to 170 cc for 12K, limited to 55 mph; and 170+ cc for 32,5K miles and 12.5 years?]

No, I don't remember this "government report" and it appears that no one else on the site does either. Are you sure you aren't just remembering an article or blog that contained someone's opinions on the subject? I'm not sure where anyone could even find "government statistics" of that kind as I don't see how they would be collected in the first place.

The OP mentions an EPA report this is a link to that report - http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420r03016.pdf the numbers the OP gives are on page 46.

I have over 20'000 miles on my Blackjack, just did the regular maintenance and kept on preventive maintenance. Runs just like when I bought is with 2 miles on the odometer. This was the best purchase ever.

Just over 20k miles on the 2009 Buddy 150 I bought new almost 6-yrs ago. Running faster easier with better mpg than ever before. Ride mostly on 45 mph roads but occasional 55 mph roads. Regular oils & filters; relash valves as required; new rear tire every 4-5k; on my 3rd belt; changed rollers once (to sliders); changed those plastic bushings by rollers. Muffler exterior looks good but is starting to get little rattling pieces inside so should replace that soon.

Just shy of 10,000 miles on my 2014 Stella 4T.

...about 3,000 of those are on the rebuilt engine. Had a misaligned part from the factory, which traveled it's way through the motor causing death and destruction where it went...well, on the stator, flywheel, crank, and top end anyway.

Still on the original cables though. Go...me? *snap* Aw...

Yalzin wrote:Just shy of 10,000 miles on my 2014 Stella 4T.

...about 3,000 of those are on the rebuilt engine. Had a misaligned part from the factory, which traveled it's way through the motor causing death and destruction where it went...well, on the stator, flywheel, crank, and top end anyway.

Still on the original cables though. Go...me? *snap* Aw...

My only gripe with Genuine is that they could not make LTL tighten-up those Stellas. That's a lot of money to lay down for a scooter that will probably have a problem or two. And Indian food is so good....Im confused.

scootERIK wrote:The OP mentions an EPA report this is a link to that report - http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420r03016.pdf the numbers the OP gives are on page 46.

That report is discussing the "useful life" of emission control systems used in various classes of motorcycles.

davidscooter wrote:Is scooter longevity also limited by fatigue-failure of the frame itself? Every 1000 miles of riding subjects the frame, and its welds, to road bounce and vibration and the resulting cyclic loading. If I rode a scooter with 30K miles on it, I would start to worry about the frame experiencing a fracture during riding. Any thoughts?

Thoughts??? Yeah. That is a load of crap.

Look at it this way... I like to compare scooters to lighters. If I walk into a store to buy a lighter, I have 2 options. I can buy a Bic that is on the top end price wise or I can buy the cheapo for half the price.

With the Bic that I spent more money on, I am almost guaranteed a solid lighter that will light every time and will last me until it is out of butane.

With the cheapo lighter, it is a roll of the dice. Rarely will it last until it runs out of butane. I have a pretty good chance of having the flint pop out.

Spend more on a quality bike vs. a cheap Chinese bike. I would not question the integrity of the Buddy frame. The Chinese frame, maybe.