Big Bore Kit Install

[Beamster]

Just curious if it's possible to install the kit with the engine in place rather than dropping the whole assembly out.

[mhardgrove]

I woud thnk you're going to have to remove the motor. It's held in with just a few electrical connections, bolts, fuel lines to the carb, and the cable to the rear brake if I'm not mistaken. I had mine out in less than 15 minutes. Best if luck! I am in the process of putting mine back together, if you need specifics reply and I will do my best to take photos to help you out.

[jmkjr72]

not on a 4 stroke
a 2 stroke yes

[Beamster]

To clarify, on the 125.

[BuddyRaton]

I used Kaos's suggestion of unbolting the rear shock. It allowed the 125 motor to rotate and provide plenty of room!

[babblefish]

Just curious if it's possible to install the kit with the engine in place rather than dropping the whole assembly out.

Yes, it is possible as long as the crankcase does not have to be bored out. If you're doing it yourself, the main thing to watchout for is to get the timing chain back on correctly, i.e., crankshaft timed correctly with the cam. Someone on this board (was it you, Kaos?) did this and posted pictures.

[Kaos]

Just curious if it's possible to install the kit with the engine in place rather than dropping the whole assembly out.

Yes, it is possible as long as the crankcase does not have to be bored out. If you're doing it yourself, the main thing to watchout for is to get the timing chain back on correctly, i.e., crankshaft timed correctly with the cam. Someone on this board (was it you, Kaos?) did this and posted pictures.

Yep, that was me, I'm on my way to work or I'd hunt down the thread for ya

You can easily install it without dropping the engine by doing like BuddyRaton said and just unbolting the rear shock and jacking up the back of the engine a bit. That'll line the head up perfectly with the access panel in the front of the bike and you can do the whole thing just like that.

[Beamster]

the main thing to watchout for is to get the timing chain back on correctly,

Yes, cam timing is important.

I recently read an interesting article where they experimented advancing and retarding the cam timing on a Suzuki and it had a definate effect on hp and torque, both in quantity and place in the rpm scale.

It would be an interesting study, unfortunately my seat of the pants dyno is immune to any changes short of 50 hp.

[Kaos]

the main thing to watchout for is to get the timing chain back on correctly,

Yes, cam timing is important.

I recently read an interesting article where they experimented advancing and retarding the cam timing on a Kawasaki and it had a definate effect on hp and torque, both in quantity and place in the rpm scale.

It would be an interesting study, unfortunately my seat of the pants dyno is immune to any changes short of 50 hp.

It can be done on the Buddy too. I installed my cam 2 degrees advanced when I put it back together. Made a noticeable difference in where the power kicked in and how much there was.

[Beamster]

I woud thnk you're going to have to remove the motor.

The reason driving me for trying it in place is that engine work is so much easier when the engine is not trying to walk around when the boles are turned, that is, if no engine stand is available.

[CWO4GUNNER]

New to the Buddy 150 (last Friday) and un-researched in the various available performance modifications, what size big-bore kit are you installing in your 125 and what is available?

So far all I have seen are kits that are only 5% oversize like 150 to 160 and wondering if there is really any appreciable difference. I have had some experience installing one oversize kit (cylinder & piston) which too an engine from 300cc to 450cc or an increase of 50% which of course made a dramatic difference. I am hoping that if I ever decide to install a big-bore kit for my 150 Buddy Int, it would be an oversize of at least 33% or a 200cc kit even if it required a bigger carb and porting. IMO the work involved for a 5% displacement increase is moot, the equivalent of which could probubly be attained from port polishing, a better carb with jetting for an open air-box and performance exhaust. Even a 1 point increase in compression ratio (thinner head gasket or milled head) would out perform a displacement increase of only 5%.

[Kaos]

New to the Buddy 150 (last Friday) and un-researched in the various available performance modifications, what size big-bore kit are you installing in your 125 and what is available?

So far all I have seen are kits that are only 5% oversize like 150 to 160 and wondering if there is really any appreciable difference. I have had some experience installing one oversize kit (cylinder & piston) which too an engine from 300cc to 450cc or an increase of 50% which of course made a dramatic difference. I am hoping that if I ever decide to install a big-bore kit for my 150 Buddy Int, it would be an oversize of at least 33% or a 200cc kit even if it required a bigger carb.

The largest you can go on the 150 is 171 without boring the cases(180 if you do). It makes a very noticable difference in acceleration and top speed.

You cannot and never will be able to do 200cc with those cases.

The 125 can go to 161cc without a bore and 187cc with a bore.

[CWO4GUNNER]

The largest you can go on the 150 is 171 without boring the cases(180 if you do). It makes a very noticable difference in acceleration and top speed.

You cannot and never will be able to do 200cc with those cases.

The 125 can go to 161cc without a bore and 187cc with a bore.

What about a 1 point increase in compression, do you happen to know the stock compression ratio of the Buddy 150 engine and if they use a head gasket with room for reducing the size? 1 point usually will not overstress an engine that is between 6 to 1 and 9 to 1. Do you know of anyone that has re-jetted for an open air-box and performance exhaust? Im trying to look for the easy performance mods 1st which usually starts with air, exhaust , and re-jetting, at least on motorcycles. One important reason to do the air, exhaust and re-jetting mod is not just for performance but to take the load off the stock lean/hot burning engine which will significantly extend the life expectancy of the hot-stock engine. Any stage 1 kits for this over-the-counter out there anywhere, or at least a recipe? Oh and thanks for that oversize info and any other info anyone can provide. Know who makes the 170 kit so I can file it?

[Kaos]

The largest you can go on the 150 is 171 without boring the cases(180 if you do). It makes a very noticable difference in acceleration and top speed.

You cannot and never will be able to do 200cc with those cases.

The 125 can go to 161cc without a bore and 187cc with a bore.

What about a 1 point increase in compression, do you happen to know the stock compression ratio of the Buddy 150 engine and if they use a head gasket with room for reducing the size? 1 point usually will not overstress an engine that is between 6 to 1 and 9 to 1. Do you know of anyone that has re-jetted for an open air-box and performance exhaust? Im trying to look for the easy performance mods 1st which usually starts with air, exhaust , and re-jetting.

You should search around the forums, there are many articles about this already.
The 125's are 9.1:1, so the 150's are likely around there as well. The head gasket cannot be split, so you'd have to make your own if you wanted a thinner head gasket.

[CWO4GUNNER]

Well that's good news 9:1 means the lower end is pretty well made and can probubly take 1 full point easily if there is that much play in the gasket and the valve clearance allows it, but even an increase of 0.5 should be noticeable together with an air-box, jetting, exhaust Mod. Perhaps I can save money modify the stock exhaust by either cutting cutting out some baffles or drilling bypass flow holes.

I have searched and found nothing here yet and on the internet keep hitting when searching for scooter/buddy airbox and jetting mods, only seem to hit on motorcycle mod sights. Oh well I guess I may have to do this from scratch and go by spark plug burn color and ride results. I bet these jets are not standard and just hope I don't have to drill-oversize my own custom jets. Whatever I come up with ill be sure to post the recipe for the Buddy 150 Int. Thanks and did not mean to hijack.

[Kaos]

Well that's good news 9:1 means the lower end is pretty well made and can probubly take 1 full point easily if there is that much play in the gasket and the valve clearance allows it, but even an increase of 0.5 should be noticeable together with an air-box, jetting, exhaust Mod. Perhaps I can save money modify the stock exhaust by either cutting cutting out some baffles or drilling bypass flow holes.

I have searched and found nothing here yet and on the internet keep hitting when searching for scooter/buddy airbox and jetting mods, only seem to hit on motorcycle mod sights. Oh well I guess I may have to do this from scratch and go by spark plug burn color and ride results. I bet these jets are not standard and just hope I don't have to drill-oversize my own custom jets. Whatever I come up with ill be sure to post the recipe for the Buddy 150 Int. Thanks and did not mean to hijack.

Just use the forum search. This topic has been discussed into the ground here, you'll find a TON of info. The jets are standard and can be ordered in sizes up to about 135, beyond that you'll have to drill them yourself. That being said, 135 is HUGE, and you'll never need that big with the mods you're talking about.

[babblefish]

<snip>The largest you can go on the 150 is 171 without boring the cases(180 if you do). It makes a very noticable difference in acceleration and top speed.

You cannot and never will be able to do 200cc with those cases.

The 125 can go to 161cc without a bore and 187cc with a bore.

Not to be argumentative, but it is possible to get to 193cc with a 63mm bore and a 62mm stroke (case will need to be bored). That's 200cc in Marketing speak.

More info about this stuff can be found in my currently stagnant post on the Blur forums - "I Seized My Blur Engine". I'm trying to find time to continue the rebuild. Currently, I'm looking for a performance exhaust system that uses a carbon fiber muffler.

Lastly, MBE Motorsports sells a 232cc GY6 engine, but I'm not sure it would fit a Buddy or Blur.

[Beamster]

Oh Oh, I've been down this road before.

It starts with a lumpy cam that needs a compression bump and leads to bigger valves and a bit of head porting not to mention a longer intake manifold tract.
Maybe I shouldn't mention them but blown transmissions, differentials and axles, and a fried clutch or two go along with the territory. Unfortunately Genuine doesn't build an M22 tranny.

But it was all in good fun and we never took the broken pieces to heart.

[Kaos]

<snip>The largest you can go on the 150 is 171 without boring the cases(180 if you do). It makes a very noticable difference in acceleration and top speed.

You cannot and never will be able to do 200cc with those cases.

The 125 can go to 161cc without a bore and 187cc with a bore.

Not to be argumentative, but it is possible to get to 193cc with a 63mm bore and a 62mm stroke (case will need to be bored). That's 200cc in Marketing speak.

More info about this stuff can be found in my currently stagnant post on the Blur forums - "I Seized My Blur Engine". I'm trying to find time to continue the rebuild. Currently, I'm looking for a performance exhaust system that uses a carbon fiber muffler.

Lastly, MBE Motorsports sells a 232cc GY6 engine, but I'm not sure it would fit a Buddy or Blur.

Ok, I should have specified that was the biggest you'll get with the STOCK cranks You are correct if you ditch the crank.

The MBE one aught to fit, though it's a longcase so you're looking at other issues.

There is also a 'bigblock' GY6 case that you can bore out to 72mm which combined with the 66mm crank will net you a 268cc GY6. Thats the one that I'm using to build my Voodoo Buddy

And just to be argumentative back, the original question was how big of a kit can you install. A crank swap goes well beyond a kit

[Kaos]

Oh Oh, I've been down this road before.

It starts with a lumpy cam that needs a compression bump and leads to bigger valves and a bit of head porting not to mention a longer intake manifold tract.
Maybe I shouldn't mention them but blown transmissions, differentials and axles, and a fried clutch or two go along with the territory. Unfortunately Genuine doesn't build an M22 tranny.

But it was all in good fun and we never took the broken pieces to heart.

Lol, yep. Just look at my build... Its gotten WELL beyond ridiculous at this point

[babblefish]

<snip>The largest you can go on the 150 is 171 without boring the cases(180 if you do). It makes a very noticable difference in acceleration and top speed.

You cannot and never will be able to do 200cc with those cases.

The 125 can go to 161cc without a bore and 187cc with a bore.

Not to be argumentative, but it is possible to get to 193cc with a 63mm bore and a 62mm stroke (case will need to be bored). That's 200cc in Marketing speak.

More info about this stuff can be found in my currently stagnant post on the Blur forums - "I Seized My Blur Engine". I'm trying to find time to continue the rebuild. Currently, I'm looking for a performance exhaust system that uses a carbon fiber muffler.

Lastly, MBE Motorsports sells a 232cc GY6 engine, but I'm not sure it would fit a Buddy or Blur.

Ok, I should have specified that was the biggest you'll get with the STOCK cranks You are correct if you ditch the crank.

The MBE one aught to fit, though it's a longcase so you're looking at other issues.

They also offer a shortcase version...

There is also a 'bigblock' GY6 case that you can bore out to 72mm which combined with the 66mm crank will net you a 268cc GY6. Thats the one that I'm using to build my Voodoo Buddy

I've heard about a "bigblock" case available in Taiwan. Guys are building close to 300cc GY6 engines over there. Where did you get it? How much was it? When will you be finished with your voodoo engine? Pictures?

And just to be argumentative back, the original question was how big of a kit can you install. A crank swap goes well beyond a kit

It does? Since when?
btw: I was trying to not be argumentative.

[babblefish]

Oh Oh, I've been down this road before.

It starts with a lumpy cam that needs a compression bump and leads to bigger valves and a bit of head porting not to mention a longer intake manifold tract.
Maybe I shouldn't mention them but blown transmissions, differentials and axles, and a fried clutch or two go along with the territory. Unfortunately Genuine doesn't build an M22 tranny.

But it was all in good fun and we never took the broken pieces to heart.

Lol, yep. Just look at my build... Its gotten WELL beyond ridiculous at this point

Well, you know the old saying: "When too much is just enough".

[Kaos]

Not to be argumentative, but it is possible to get to 193cc with a 63mm bore and a 62mm stroke (case will need to be bored). That's 200cc in Marketing speak.

More info about this stuff can be found in my currently stagnant post on the Blur forums - "I Seized My Blur Engine". I'm trying to find time to continue the rebuild. Currently, I'm looking for a performance exhaust system that uses a carbon fiber muffler.

Lastly, MBE Motorsports sells a 232cc GY6 engine, but I'm not sure it would fit a Buddy or Blur.

Ok, I should have specified that was the biggest you'll get with the STOCK cranks You are correct if you ditch the crank.

The MBE one aught to fit, though it's a longcase so you're looking at other issues.

They also offer a shortcase version...

There is also a 'bigblock' GY6 case that you can bore out to 72mm which combined with the 66mm crank will net you a 268cc GY6. Thats the one that I'm using to build my Voodoo Buddy

I've heard about a "bigblock" case available in Taiwan. Guys are building close to 300cc GY6 engines over there. Where did you get it? How much was it? When will you be finished with your voodoo engine? Pictures?

And just to be argumentative back, the original question was how big of a kit can you install. A crank swap goes well beyond a kit

It does? Since when?
btw: I was trying to not be argumentative.

I got it from eBay from the company that produces them in Taiwan. It was $299 plus a crapload in shipping cost(I'm not at home to check the exact price...)

It comes with the cases and a 69mm top end, head, cam and rockers. The case opening is rectangular instead of square like a normal GY6 allowing more bore(but less options for top end parts). I'll be boring the case and top end as far as it can go. Most people are getting 72mm, though I've heard of a few people getting as much as 75mm.

I'm also working on getting a 66mm crank to go with it as well, though I've not actually ordered this part yet.

The rest of it will be from my current GY6.

Assuming the 72mm bore, thats a 268cc GY6. If I *DO* get to 75mm, thats a 291cc GY6.

Then I have to figure out things like cooling, and if my Koso Racing clutch is up to the task, and if the Buddy's strange rear gears will fit the new cases or if I'll have to get new gears, and how I'm gonna set the shocks up since its a long case(Though the shocks from my current GTS motor setup aught to work...).

[BuddyRaton]

Kaos....started a CBR 2012 build yet? I have

[Kaos]

Kaos....started a CBR 2012 build yet? I have

Man, I'd love to... I don't know if I can get the time off though
I'm tempted to try the 2012 scooter land speed trials.

What'd you end up going with? Vintage?

[CWO4GUNNER]

The major mods and displacement increases I just like to file encase I get my hands on a project bike for pennies on the dollar. For a new bike Im a practical rider and user and want to just get the bike breathing well beyond the stock restrictions without compromising reliability and for the least amount of invested money like $100 tops should get my air box DIY moded, exhaust DIY gutted, jetted, and the correct heat range plug probubly 1 to 2 heat ranges cooler, maybe some lighter rollers and a DIy cut head gasket change to boost compression a little. Together that should make ma a cheap sleeper scoot against stock road competition lol.

[Kaos]

The major mods and displacement increases I just like to file encase I get my hands on a project bike for pennies on the dollar. For a new bike Im a practical rider and user and want to just get the bike breathing well beyond the stock restrictions without compromising reliability and for the least amount of invested money like $100 tops should get my air box DIY moded, exhaust DIY gutted, jetted, and the correct heat range plug probubly 1 to 2 heat ranges cooler, maybe some lighter rollers and a DIT cut head gasket change.

If thats what you're trying to do, leave the air box and exhaust alone!!! I can't stress this enough! You'll just kill your torque and be unhappy with your bike. Spend that $100 on a Dr Pulley variator and some sliders. You'll be much happier.

The stock exhaust and intake breath pretty well on their own. I was WELL into modifying the bike before I had to do much of anything to the airbox.
Infact is wasn't until I ported out the head, put in bigger valves, and swapped cams that the airbox started to be a restriction at all.

You'll be much happier with low cost transmission mods than anything airflow wise you'll be able to do for the $100 mark.

[BuddyRaton]

Kaos....started a CBR 2012 build yet? I have

Man, I'd love to... I don't know if I can get the time off though
I'm tempted to try the 2012 scooter land speed trials.

What'd you end up going with? Vintage?

Of course! After they said that they fully expected...and encouraged...the handicap loopholes to be exploited....well. I decided to exploit the snot out of them! I'll be posting over on MV The Build is going to be a 1964 Vespa GD.

[Kaos]

Kaos....started a CBR 2012 build yet? I have

Man, I'd love to... I don't know if I can get the time off though
I'm tempted to try the 2012 scooter land speed trials.

What'd you end up going with? Vintage?

Of course! After they said that they fully expected...and encouraged...the handicap loopholes to be exploited....well. I decided to exploit the snot out of them! I'll be posting over on MV The Build is going to be a 1964 Vespa GD.

I'm gonna assume you mean GL I just checked out the rules, its kinda sweet that the handycap starts with a '79 P-200. So you'll actually get a REVERSE handy cap with that bike

[BuddyRaton]

Man, I'd love to... I don't know if I can get the time off though
I'm tempted to try the 2012 scooter land speed trials.

What'd you end up going with? Vintage?

Of course! After they said that they fully expected...and encouraged...the handicap loopholes to be exploited....well. I decided to exploit the snot out of them! I'll be posting over on MV The Build is going to be a 1964 Vespa GD.

I'm gonna assume you mean GL I just checked out the rules, its kinda sweet that the handycap starts with a '79 P-200. So you'll actually get a REVERSE handy cap with that bike

Yeah the GL...but do you think I can stay stock?

[Kaos]

Of course! After they said that they fully expected...and encouraged...the handicap loopholes to be exploited....well. I decided to exploit the snot out of them! I'll be posting over on MV The Build is going to be a 1964 Vespa GD.

I'm gonna assume you mean GL I just checked out the rules, its kinda sweet that the handycap starts with a '79 P-200. So you'll actually get a REVERSE handy cap with that bike

Yeah the GL...but do you think I can stay stock?

What is this 'stock' you speak of? I think I knew what that was at one point.... Now time to go swap in a new clutch on my Super

[BuddyRaton]

Here is the start.
http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic81281

It's a good thing I have...oh crap...I'm down to less than a year!

[BuddyRaton]

Sorry about the hijack....kinda


Beamster how are you making out?

[Beamster]

Sorry about the hijack....kinda

No problem.
Nice to read something other than "what color socks go with my helmet?"

[CWO4GUNNER]

If thats what you're trying to do, leave the air box and exhaust alone!!! I can't stress this enough! You'll just kill your torque and be unhappy with your bike. Spend that $100 on a Dr Pulley variator and some sliders. You'll be much happier.

The stock exhaust and intake breath pretty well on their own. I was WELL into modifying the bike before I had to do much of anything to the airbox.
Infact is wasn't until I ported out the head, put in bigger valves, and swapped cams that the airbox started to be a restriction at all.

You'll be much happier with low cost transmission mods than anything airflow wise you'll be able to do for the $100 mark.

Now that I think about what you just said it makes sense. I keep forgetting that on comparatively large displacement motorcycles (300CC per cylinder) I guess when it comes to 125-150 4-stroke engines there is not that much restriction necessary, point taken. Like I said Im not experienced with small displacement engines except for the Suzuki RM 100 2-stroke, what an engine I got it to generating about 22 HP @ 10,000 RPM with a dry wight of only 145 Lbs. The only motor cycle I ever owned I could load in a truck with 1 arm standing outside the truck bed lol.
But I digress...OK then I will take your advice and check out the Dr Pully setup. When you say sliders are you talking frame sliders as I don't intend on going down on a scooter?

What wight Dr Pully rollers should I use for singe and double passenger duty? and what is the Buddy Int 150 stock roller weight? I guess I will get the Dr Pulley variator as well righT? DONE! Sorry for the hijacking just taking advantage of the information opportunity enough said..

Qty SKU Item Price
1 1200-1106
Dr. Pulley Weights, Sliding - 18x14 - Buddy 125/150/Blur (11.0G)
Make: Genuine
Model: Buddy 150 $28.00
1 1200-1135
Dr Pulley Variator - GY6 125/150
Make: Genuine
Model: Buddy 150 $134.00
1 483727
Oil Filter - Buddy 150, Buddy 125, Blur 150/220, ET4 150, GT
Make: Genuine
Model: Buddy 150 $9.95
1 SHIPPING Free Shipping (7-10 Business Days) $0.00

[/img]

[Kaos]

If thats what you're trying to do, leave the air box and exhaust alone!!! I can't stress this enough! You'll just kill your torque and be unhappy with your bike. Spend that $100 on a Dr Pulley variator and some sliders. You'll be much happier.

The stock exhaust and intake breath pretty well on their own. I was WELL into modifying the bike before I had to do much of anything to the airbox.
Infact is wasn't until I ported out the head, put in bigger valves, and swapped cams that the airbox started to be a restriction at all.

You'll be much happier with low cost transmission mods than anything airflow wise you'll be able to do for the $100 mark.

Now that I think about what you just said it makes sense. I keep forgetting that on comparatively large displacement motorcycles (300CC per cylinder) I guess when it comes to 125-150 4-stroke engines there is not that much restriction necessary, point taken. Like I said Im not experienced with small displacement engines except for the Suzuki RM 100 2-stroke, what an engine I got it to generating about 22 HP @ 10,000 RPM with a dry wight of only 145 Lbs. The only motor cycle I ever owned I could load in a truck with 1 arm standing outside the truck bed lol.
But I digress...OK then I will take your advice and check out the Dr Pully setup. When you say sliders are you talking frame sliders as I don't intend on going down on a scooter?

What wight Dr Pully rollers should I use for singe and double passenger duty? and what is the Buddy Int 150 stock roller weight? I guess I will get the Dr Pulley variator as well righT? DONE! Sorry for the hijacking just taking advantage of the information opportunity enough said..

Qty SKU Item Price
1 1200-1106
Dr. Pulley Weights, Sliding - 18x14 - Buddy 125/150/Blur (11.0G)
Make: Genuine
Model: Buddy 150 $28.00
1 1200-1135
Dr Pulley Variator - GY6 125/150
Make: Genuine
Model: Buddy 150 $134.00
1 483727
Oil Filter - Buddy 150, Buddy 125, Blur 150/220, ET4 150, GT
Make: Genuine
Model: Buddy 150 $9.95
1 SHIPPING Free Shipping (7-10 Business Days) $0.00

[/img]

Not frame sliders. Variator sliders. You want to upgrade from rollers to the Dr Pulley sliders, which is what you linked to.

[gearhead]

... It can be done on the Buddy too. I installed my cam 2 degrees advanced when I put it back together. Made a noticeable difference in where the power kicked in and how much there was.

did you do this with a cdi? or did you skip a tooth forward on the cam?

[Kaos]

... It can be done on the Buddy too. I installed my cam 2 degrees advanced when I put it back together. Made a noticeable difference in where the power kicked in and how much there was.

did you do this with a cdi? or did you skip a tooth forward on the cam?

I advanced the cam, I forget now how many teeth, but I had a degree wheel to do it... I ALSO have a timing adjustable CDI.

[gearhead]

i would think if you advanced the cam 1 tooth it would be quick low end, but crappy high end.

[Kaos]

i would think if you advanced the cam 1 tooth it would be quick low end, but crappy high end.

No, it was real good at both ends, It did give me more low end, but I don't feel like I lost any top end... Granted I had more top end than I had gear to go with it, so that might be why.

[gearhead]

so on the flywheel, where did you have the mark on the case line up with the flywheel? When i put mine together, i had the mark right at the tip of the arrow... is that where normal timing should be? lol i feel like my scooter should be faster

[Kaos]

so on the flywheel, where did you have the mark on the case line up with the flywheel? When i put mine together, i had the mark right at the tip of the arrow... is that where normal timing should be? lol i feel like my scooter should be faster

Urg, to be honest I'm not sure off the top of my head. It was a couple years back that I did it. I'll dig through my notes and see if I remembered to write down what I did...

[Beamster]

The Suzuki dual sport blueprinting article running in MCN for 4 installments now was usefully technical and very interesting.
They only have the first part on their website so far:
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical.asp

In the end, they said that their bike as stock was about 4 degrees retarded cam timing.
Their best final solution after mods and testing was 1 degree advanced.
The overall effort yielded about 28% HP increase, but that's with many mods, not just the cam timing adjustment.

It's an interesting read if you can find all 4 months, Feb-May.

[BuddyRaton]

I'm gonna assume you mean GL I just checked out the rules, its kinda sweet that the handycap starts with a '79 P-200. So you'll actually get a REVERSE handy cap with that bike

Yeah the GL...but do you think I can stay stock?

What is this 'stock' you speak of? I think I knew what that was at one point.... Now time to go swap in a new clutch on my Super

To prevent further hijacking (at least by me!) I have started a thread on my build
topic18355.html