Modern Buddy

It's much better than I expected, but my expectations were pretty low

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-3223 ... ta-150-EFI

The quality of the plastic is phenomenal. I want to ride one to experience the retro-twisty EFI-ness of it all...

I dont know this is like the new Lambrettas.

Plus the character of the real retro bikes partially comes from the shifting this just seems a waste of time.

I hear you, but probably 30x our numbers think that shifting is a waste of time. I think for those people, this might be a good solution.

We (in the market) will see for sure

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

Trying to remake a classic is never going to be a win \ win situation. Heck in certain crowds even a Stella is an abomination. Everyone’s opinion is different but to me a modern interpretation of a classic would always be a manual shift. It would be like Ford deciding to reproduce the 64 Mustang with an electric motor, just feels like essence on what made it special is missing. I have owned a Buddy and it was great but once I took Stella for a ride it was all over. It touched a nerve or something, hard to explain but for me it just felt right.

It looks & rides like a Vespa VBB. To me, this is EXCITING! To the old heads well, I'm a young blood...!

I'm older than most but don't find many of the old ways to be better. I like the twist n go and as soon as I sell my 2 stroke Stella I may buy a 4 stroke or even one of these new guys.

Except for the ugly wheels, I think it's an incredibly cute scooter and can't wait to ride one. But I won't be giving up my easy-to-work-on Stella to buy one. I'll let my daughter buy one and just ride hers.

Mr. DennisD,

Want to donate that Stella to a poor college kid?
Cant hurt to ask.

I think the LaVita is an interesting project regardless of whatever heresies Hammerhead may be engaging in by copying a Vespa VB style.

Fact is, whether or not it's a good scooter is totally irrelevant to people who will judge it based on the fact that it's a plastic-bodied Vespa style knock off built in China.

I don't doubt for a second that it's possible to build a quality scooter in mainland China, but it's pretty damn difficult. If some US company figures out how to make a decent-quality 150cc EFI scooter for $2500, well, good for them.

I'm willing to judge it on its own merits. Unfortunately, I'v never had high hopes for the La Vita, but have to say I'm unimpressed by what I've seen in photos from Dealer Expo.

I haven't seen one in person but as I've said from the start, the exposed screws through the front legshield look much different on plastic than metal. It makes it look a little cheap and flimsy.

The instrument gauge is just butt ugly. No way around that. Looks like the cheapest available part crammed into the top of the headset. The rear taillight assembly and turn signals look pretty bad to me from the pics as well.

On the other hand, EFI, front and rear disc brakes, looks good on paper.

I'd heard this got a very favorable reaction at Expo, but I have to wonder where that reaction was coming from. For dealers who currently sell Chinese scoots (generic, Lance, Fly, etc.) and lower-end Taiwanese makes (Adly), this probably looks pretty good. Those selling Genuine, Kymco, SYM, etc. are probably a bit skeptical. Vespa dealers probably rolled their eyes and walked away as quickly as possible.

I also have my doubts about Hammerhead. I mean, have you heard their THEME SONG?
http://www.hammerheadoffroad.com/

my opinion is the La Vita is a handsome scooter..the msrp of 2499.00 is acceptable....too soon to question the durabilty.... Rumor mill has an affordable 50cc La Vita on the horizon too...

scootergator wrote:Mr. DennisD,

Want to donate that Stella to a poor college kid?
Cant hurt to ask.

All donations have been made for this fiscal year and due to the economic downturn experienced throughout the country our plans for future donations have necessarily had to be drastically reduced. Your request has been received and accepted as a future possibility and will be given every consideration in our annual budget planning meetings. You may wish to consult with your financial sources for a contribution to our philanthropic endeavors. This would definitely enhance the possibility of a future donation to you and, depending on the size of the contribution, could make for an immediate donation. Keep up the good work, the future is yours. Go Gators!

It's all good, and I really have to ride it before I state my final opinion, but right now I do think that it has a shot at making some sales. This thing really has to be seen in person to appreciate it and I think that the quality is just fine for what it is. It probably won't appeal to the MV crowd, and probably not the vintage twisty crowd, but it will appeal to the vast middle group, especially those with a champagne taste (twisty Vespa) but a beer budget ("scooter" aficionados). If the thing doesn't fall apart immediately, it could be a hit.

With an MSRP some $1900 less than an LX 150, this thing could deliver a boat load of sales, I'm just saying... and those Vespa dealers can roll their eyes all they want, but eventually they are going to have to compete, either technologically or price-wise. Or Piaggio can flee, again. We'll still be here, and we'll still be riding.

Trust me, I was skeptical about the LaVita's quality, despite liking its looks from the get-go. The engine looks solid, like any GY6. The switches also seem well-fabricated. (The biggest issue with Chinese bikes is shitty switches with no way to repair/replace them.) I think the exposed screws actually look awesomely steampunk, as the plastic body reminds me more of a fiberglass car. But I agree with ericalm: the digital gauge is just plain ugly, and the DOT signals are also unfortunately designed.

I remember having many of the same issues with the 2006 Buddy and the 2009 Vespa S. I hate Buddy's lack of cowls & tiny legshield. I'm also baffled why it has two types of plastic -- the shiny & pebbled have faded into distinctly different pinks. The Vespa S has an inordinate amount of plastic "chrome" elements, most notably on its own ugly instrument gauge. And don't even get me started on its ridiculously useless glove-tray.

Do I think the LaVita will become a Buddy-killer? No. Genuine/Scooterworks have the industry beat in terms of parts, accessories, and warranty fulfillment. It's also not nearly as peppy or fast. However, if Hammerhead is able to maintain a high standard of quality with a low price point, I think it could become an interesting addition to a two-scooter garage (especially for households who aren't interested in owning two of the exact same scooter). Mos def take a hard look at one in person and judge for yourself.

Rippinyarn wrote:With an MSRP some $1900 less than an LX 150, this thing could deliver a boat load of sales, I'm just saying... and those Vespa dealers can roll their eyes all they want, but eventually they are going to have to compete, either technologically or price-wise. Or Piaggio can flee, again. We'll still be here, and we'll still be riding.

There are a lot of 150s/125s out there that are much cheaper than a Vespa LX. The LaVita is a brand new product, the dealer network isn't in place yet, it's unproven. I don't think it's a particularly new or grave threat to Vespa.

Vespa relies on the fact that people who want a Vespa and can afford one will buy a Vespa. As far as they're concerned—and this is true for many buyers as well—a Vespa is a Vespa and everything else is just a scooter. Those who cannot afford one will buy something else, a Buddy or Kymco or LaVita. Though they're obviously threatened by lower-priced competitors, Vespa competes on reputation, style and quality. Few scooters can compete head to head on reputation and style.

The problem for Vespa is that the number of people who want a Vespa and can afford one has dwindled. Without going too far off topic, this has a number of serious repercussions which should have Vespa and its dealers pretty concerned. One is that as the economy recovers, people may have $3K to spend on a scooter they've been waiting a couple years to buy but not $6K.

This is very good for Genuine and its dealers. It may be good for the LaVita, too, but that remains to be seen.

[Moved topic to General Discussions. Not really Stella-related and may be of interest to those not trolling the Stella Forum.]

IIRC, it's an Adly engine (as is the new "lambretta.") Adly's arguably Taiwanese, but I think they make a lot of stuff in China (I think these have a chinese VIN.)

Hammerhead's been good about accountability and communicating with the boards and clubs and blogs, and I think they're trying to do it right, so it all just comes down to quality.

I'd never buy one, but there's DEFINITELY a market. I'd probably never buy a Stella, for that matter, just because if I'm going to buy a new scooter, I want one that's based on new technology and engineered for performance, not for looks. (hello Blur). If I wanted a cute, slow, wobbly old-fashioned scooter, I'd fix one of the ones in my garage, ha.

Bb.

Thanks for moving it Eric, I pondered and pondered at where to put the post, and that in itself might be one of the challenges that the "La Vita" face.

BTW, I hate the name

If there is a market for the existing POS Chinese scooters there is no reason to think there won't be a similar market for these too. Now if these fall to pieces as rapidly as those other POS Chinese scooters, and people similarly can't get them repaired due to lack of parts or lack of people willing to work on them, then I think they will be short lived. I'll leave my opinion on the aesthetics out of this commentary as despite what I think, there will be those who will buy these. Many people don't know or don't care about the difference between a quality original and a cheep knock off. How many people are thrilled that they got a Rolex for $10 and wear it with pride? (Even if it doesn't keep correct time.)

The real crime here is that theme song. WTF? Boycott Hammerhead just for producing that and making it public. I was waiting for a Power Ranger to fly across the screen. Good grief. How out of touch with your market can you be?

illnoise wrote:IIRC, it's an Adly engine (as is the new "lambretta.") Adly's arguably Taiwanese, but I think they make a lot of stuff in China (I think these have a chinese VIN.)

Hammerhead's been good about accountability and communicating with the boards and clubs and blogs, and I think they're trying to do it right, so it all just comes down to quality.
Bb.

hmm, that is good news if the LaVita is Adly(Her Chee) powered......and I do agree that the staff at Hammerhead are knowledgeable and courteous.

I also have my doubts about Hammerhead. I mean, have you heard their THEME SONG?
http://www.hammerheadoffroad.com/

Absolute morons. No website should start playing music without the consent of the viewer! That was just plain tacky!

The theme song makes me laugh every time I hear it. It's like the bastard child of Nickelback and Velvet Revolver.

hardd1 wrote:hmm, that is good news if the LaVita is Adly(Her Chee) powered...

Actually, I think I'm wrong about that. Hammerhead is the U.S. Adly distributor, though things are a bit weird:

http://blog.guidoebert.com/2010/02/23/t ... ement.aspx

http://blog.guidoebert.com/2010/03/04/h ... -post.aspx

In the second post, Hammerhead says CPI is not the mfr. of La Vita, but I'm not sure where CPI came into the conversation, maybe they mean HerChee, or maybe CPI and HerChee merged (they were both taiwan-based companies that manufactured mostly in China, and I know CPI was going through a bankruptcy...)

I'm writing a story about LaVita so I'll try to clear it all up.

Bb

Hasn't passed CARB yet. Wonder if it's been submitted. At this rate, it's taking six to eight months to get through CARB. We're still waiting on the Symba and Fiddle 150s.

ericalm wrote:Hasn't passed CARB yet. Wonder if it's been submitted. At this rate, it's taking six to eight months to get through CARB. We're still waiting on the Symba and Fiddle 150s.

Fiddle 150s? Do you mean the SYM Fiddle? Hmm. As much as I like my Fiddle 125, I think it would really benefit from a few CCs.

Syd wrote:

ericalm wrote:Hasn't passed CARB yet. Wonder if it's been submitted. At this rate, it's taking six to eight months to get through CARB. We're still waiting on the Symba and Fiddle 150s.

Fiddle 150s? Do you mean the SYM Fiddle? Hmm. As much as I like my Fiddle 125, I think it would really benefit from a few CCs.

Ha, I do mean the 125s—no 150 that I know of. So, yeah, no SYM Fiddle 125s in CA yet.

I think the Her-Chee website is just as bad as Hammerhead. Rollover a couple of objects on the page. http://www.adlymoto.com/scooter/index.htm

Here's a scooter 4 U environmentalist types:

ericalm wrote:

Syd wrote:

ericalm wrote:Hasn't passed CARB yet. Wonder if it's been submitted. At this rate, it's taking six to eight months to get through CARB. We're still waiting on the Symba and Fiddle 150s.

Fiddle 150s? Do you mean the SYM Fiddle? Hmm. As much as I like my Fiddle 125, I think it would really benefit from a few CCs.

Ha, I do mean the 125s—no 150 that I know of...

Oh.

Maybe I should LOSE 25CCs? (Or is that lbs!)

Syd wrote:Maybe I should LOSE 25CCs? (Or is that lbs!)

My trusty ace mechanic Greasy has twice suggested this should be my next mod. "Upgear kit? How about the SlimFast mod first? Ha ha." Indeed.

At first I saw this scooter I was really impressed with the look. absolute vintage style. I have always been concerned about Chinese stuff though and so I wrote to Hammerhead and spoke to Paul Burnett. Paul informed me that these are excellent quality machines. Hammerhead is trying to bring in a superior scooter at an affordable price. The Engines are Adly, the frame is made by the same supplier that does the frames for Honda, the plastic body panels are done in China by the same supplier that makes the plastics for Yamaha and Suzuki, and the Fuel Injection is another company in Taiwan. ALL top quality. Parts availability will not be an issue. All in all I was very impressed with Paul's answers to my many questions.

The only issue that I am concerned about is aftermarket performance upgrades. The LaVita is rated according to Paul at 7.8 HP and tops out at 55 mph. I wish it were a 200cc. Anyway it is definitely worth a look and a test ride. anyone know if there are aftermarket performance upgrades for the GY6 engine?

(IMHO) I reject the idea that using classic styling is somehow wrong. There's nothing wrong w/copying vintage style, a thing of beauty is a joy forever, afterall. Its human nature to try to change things, and likewise to realize on occasion that something didn't need rethinking. I actually take more exception to the faux-italiano branding of scooters like this. While the classic shape of a Vespa is alluring to the eye, even stirring something in you, the cheesy branding is kind of insulting to one's intelligence. As silly a name as "Buddy" is, I definitely like it better than if Genuine had gone with Arrivederci Suprema.

Build quality is another thing entirely. I have two friends who decided to save some money (upfront at least) and buy Fly Scooter Il Bello's. Both have started having problems at about 1 year in.

Len wrote:At first I saw this scooter I was really impressed with the look. absolute vintage style. I have always been concerned about Chinese stuff though and so I wrote to Hammerhead and spoke to Paul Burnett. Paul informed me that these are excellent quality machines. Hammerhead is trying to bring in a superior scooter at an affordable price. The Engines are Adly, the frame is made by the same supplier that does the frames for Honda, the plastic body panels are done in China by the same supplier that makes the plastics for Yamaha and Suzuki, and the Fuel Injection is another company in Taiwan. ALL top quality. Parts availability will not be an issue. All in all I was very impressed with Paul's answers to my many questions.

The only issue that I am concerned about is aftermarket performance upgrades. The LaVita is rated according to Paul at 7.8 HP and tops out at 55 mph. I wish it were a 200cc. Anyway it is definitely worth a look and a test ride. anyone know if there are aftermarket performance upgrades for the GY6 engine?

i know paul. i've seen the bike in person. it's pretty awesome. it doesn't have any of the sure-fire chinese disaster "features" like remote start or "ABS" brakes. I would be just as inclined to buy one of these, as I would a buddy. The same warranty, minus the roadside. I'm probably more trusting of them, since I'm in dallas and I can drive to their headquarters. I think the only thing separating them from the buddys, would be dealer network. Probably within a year, we'll start seeing more dealers signing up, especially with all of the positive press this thing is getting.

Len wrote:At first I saw this scooter I was really impressed with the look. absolute

The only issue that I am concerned about is aftermarket performance upgrades. The LaVita is rated according to Paul at 7.8 HP and tops out at 55 mph. I wish it were a 200cc. Anyway it is definitely worth a look and a test ride. anyone know if there are aftermarket performance upgrades for the GY6 engine?

Yes, absolutely. Its *THE* most common automatic scooter engine. The Buddy 125 and 150 are both GY6's. All of Sym and Kymco's bikes are GY6's. Every bike outa China is a GY6. If its got a GY6 in it, there's a TON of aftermarket

JSharpPhoto wrote:

Len wrote:At first I saw this scooter I was really impressed with the look. absolute vintage style. I have always been concerned about Chinese stuff though and so I wrote to Hammerhead and spoke to Paul Burnett. Paul informed me that these are excellent quality machines. Hammerhead is trying to bring in a superior scooter at an affordable price. The Engines are Adly, the frame is made by the same supplier that does the frames for Honda, the plastic body panels are done in China by the same supplier that makes the plastics for Yamaha and Suzuki, and the Fuel Injection is another company in Taiwan. ALL top quality. Parts availability will not be an issue. All in all I was very impressed with Paul's answers to my many questions.

The only issue that I am concerned about is aftermarket performance upgrades. The LaVita is rated according to Paul at 7.8 HP and tops out at 55 mph. I wish it were a 200cc. Anyway it is definitely worth a look and a test ride. anyone know if there are aftermarket performance upgrades for the GY6 engine?

i know paul. i've seen the bike in person. it's pretty awesome. it doesn't have any of the sure-fire chinese disaster "features" like remote start or "ABS" brakes. I would be just as inclined to buy one of these, as I would a buddy. The same warranty, minus the roadside. I'm probably more trusting of them, since I'm in dallas and I can drive to their headquarters. I think the only thing separating them from the buddys, would be dealer network. Probably within a year, we'll start seeing more dealers signing up, especially with all of the positive press this thing is getting.

Fly Scooters got alot of positive press too. The scoots seem well made, solid, but after reading many reviews it seems they just don't stand up to the test of time. We won't know if this scooter is any better until it's been around for awhile and owners have had the chance to rack up some serious miles on different road conditions. Another big issue with Fly is it's dealer network; I've read many reviews of people saying their dealer was out of business when the scoot needed repair and so they had to find someone else (if they could find someone else). Fly's warranty states specifically that if the dealer goes out of business while the scoot is under warranty then the warranty only covers parts, not labor. Apparantly, the dealer going out of business issue is common. I imagine that Hammerhead will have the same problem. Hopefully companies like Fly and Hammerhead, companies with good intentions, will in time be able to put out decent scooters with a dependable network of dealers. Until then though I'm going to stick with Genuine even though I'd love to add another retro looking scoot to my stable to keep my Vino company.

but fly scooters doesn't MAKE scooters. They sell the same ones that other no-name companies sell. They're a scooter DISTRUBUTOR, at best. You really can't compare the two.