Well, that's a little annoying.
Moderator: Modern Buddy Staff
- twoscoots
- Member
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 11:52 pm
- Location: Richmond, VA
Well, that's a little annoying.
I took the MSF and am a duly-licensed motorcycle operator. I pay for tags and insurance on my scooters, and I pay property taxes.
Therefore, I was a little irked to find myself behind a Sunset Buddy today, with a faded rear fender except the rectangle where the plate used to be, which popped out into 45mph traffic with no problem. People will never take us seriously when people get away with that sort of BS.
Therefore, I was a little irked to find myself behind a Sunset Buddy today, with a faded rear fender except the rectangle where the plate used to be, which popped out into 45mph traffic with no problem. People will never take us seriously when people get away with that sort of BS.
- jfrost2
- Member
- Posts: 4782
- Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:32 am
- Location: Somewhere in Ohio, Maybe.
- twoscoots
- Member
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 11:52 pm
- Location: Richmond, VA
- Ray Knobs
- Member
- Posts: 683
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:55 pm
- Location: Rochester NY
- Contact:
- michelle_7728
- Member
- Posts: 1914
- Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:16 am
- Location: Renton, WA
Well that's a little annoying
Hmmmm...wonder if the scooter was stolen?
Past bikes: 08' Genuine Buddy 125, '07 Yamaha Majesty 400, '07 Piaggio MP3 250, '08 Piaggio MP3 500, '08 Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Current bikes: Two '09 Genuine Buddy 125's
Current bikes: Two '09 Genuine Buddy 125's
- pdxrita
- Member
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:57 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
- Drumwoulf
- Member
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:49 pm
But why would one suppose that "the man" (the authorities) would judge ALL scooter riders by what an individual rider does? If a guy from Copenhagen commits a crime, would you than say all Danes are evil? If you were bitten by a Beagle, would you condemn the entire breed? If a guy in a pickup truck cut you off, does that make ALL pickup truck drivers AHs????pdxrita wrote:The problem is, "the man" is all of the rest of us who pay our registration fees, taxes, etc....Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.
Namaste,
~drummer~
07 Buddy 125
07 Vespa GT200
~drummer~
07 Buddy 125
07 Vespa GT200
- laxer
- Member
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:33 am
- Location: The Rocky Mountains
I don't think the problem here is being judged by "the man," I think it's that we who pay for our registration and MSF are getting a raw deal when the rest of these yahoos don't.Drumwoulf wrote:But why would one suppose that "the man" (the authorities) would judge ALL scooter riders by what an individual rider does? If a guy from Copenhagen commits a crime, would you than say all Danes are evil? If you were bitten by a Beagle, would you condemn the entire breed? If a guy in a pickup truck cut you off, does that make ALL pickup truck drivers AHs????pdxrita wrote:The problem is, "the man" is all of the rest of us who pay our registration fees, taxes, etc....Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.
-
- Member
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:19 am
- Location: San Francisco
Indeed, and if everyone who was supposed to be paying those fees was actually paying them they'd be less (in theory).laxer wrote:I don't think the problem here is being judged by "the man," I think it's that we who pay for our registration and MSF are getting a raw deal when the rest of these yahoos don't.
Minority groups are unfortunately often represented by those that stick out the most. Motorists aren't likely to remember the polite scooterist they encounter each day, they'll remember the bad ones.Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.
- Lostmycage
- FAQ Moderator
- Posts: 4062
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:36 am
- Location: The Interwebz!
Re: Well, that's a little annoying.
I couldn't agree with you more. There's quite a few of those riders around here and it burns me up. They're also the ones that are riding like they're playing a game of Frogger. A number of months back, I saw one riding with a helmet on top of his head.... literally, on top of his head, as in the chin bar was acting as a sun visor. I wonder who he was sticking it to?twoscoots wrote:I took the MSF and am a duly-licensed motorcycle operator. I pay for tags and insurance on my scooters, and I pay property taxes.
Therefore, I was a little irked to find myself behind a Sunset Buddy today, with a faded rear fender except the rectangle where the plate used to be, which popped out into 45mph traffic with no problem. People will never take us seriously when people get away with that sort of BS.
Check out Scoot Richmond's new site: My awesome local shop.
-
- Member
- Posts: 2037
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:57 pm
- Location: Next to a big dirt lot.
- Contact:
...one of the more stupid responses I've found on this board. If you excuse illegal behavior like this, what's to prevent you from excusing other, more invasive and unpleasant illegal behavior. Who makes the decision what's acceptable? You alone? "The Man" is not here to oppress you (despite what you hear in song lyrics), their ultimate purpose is to prevent humanity from behaving like a pack of jackals on an antelope...snarling and snapping at each other as they fight over the drumsticks of a weaker animal.Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.
--Keys
"Life without music would Bb"
- illnoise
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 3245
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:23 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL
I don't think we need to encourage empathy for people that can't be bothered to accept the responsibilities of riding legally and safely, I think they're scum, even though I have lots of friends that do that kinda stuff.
Because they're cheap and irresponsible, the rest of us pay crazy insurance premiums, we pay more for bikes because the importers and manufacturers need to carry more insurance, and the bikes get more and more annoyingly dummyproofed each year. Those people also bring bad attention to scootering, bringing law-abiding riders more hassles from authorities, and less respect from motorists.
Worse, we lose the right to make our own decisions because other people can't make mature decisions on their own and need to be babysat. You can talk about libertarianism all you want, but don't use it as an excuse for irresponsibility.
Because they're cheap and irresponsible, the rest of us pay crazy insurance premiums, we pay more for bikes because the importers and manufacturers need to carry more insurance, and the bikes get more and more annoyingly dummyproofed each year. Those people also bring bad attention to scootering, bringing law-abiding riders more hassles from authorities, and less respect from motorists.
Worse, we lose the right to make our own decisions because other people can't make mature decisions on their own and need to be babysat. You can talk about libertarianism all you want, but don't use it as an excuse for irresponsibility.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
- Lostmycage
- FAQ Moderator
- Posts: 4062
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:36 am
- Location: The Interwebz!
That was definitely worth posting twice. I agree so much, I'm quoting the whole thing, just so it's there in triplicate. If I were the baking type and had your address, I'd mail you a home made cookie. That's how much I agree with that statement! Sadly, since I don't bake (nor have your address) I'll let this cheesy emote convey what a hypothetical cookie cannot.illnoise wrote:I don't think we need to encourage empathy for people that can't be bothered to accept the responsibilities of riding legally and safely, I think they're scum, even though I have lots of friends that do that kinda stuff.
Because they're cheap and irresponsible, the rest of us pay crazy insurance premiums, we pay more for bikes because the importers and manufacturers need to carry more insurance, and the bikes get more and more annoyingly dummyproofed each year. Those people also bring bad attention to scootering, bringing law-abiding riders more hassles from authorities, and less respect from motorists.
Worse, we lose the right to make our own decisions because other people can't make mature decisions on their own and need to be babysat. You can talk about libertarianism all you want, but don't use it as an excuse for irresponsibility.
Check out Scoot Richmond's new site: My awesome local shop.
- Ray Knobs
- Member
- Posts: 683
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:55 pm
- Location: Rochester NY
- Contact:
Keys wrote:Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?Ray Knobs wrote:
Who makes the decision what's acceptable? You alone? "The Man" is not here to oppress you (despite what you hear in song lyrics), their ultimate purpose is to prevent humanity from behaving like a pack of jackals on an antelope...snarling and snapping at each other as they fight over the drumsticks of a weaker animal.
--Keys
jackal
- Cheshire
- Member
- Posts: 1976
- Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:27 pm
- Location: near Asheville, NC
This kinda thing gets me, too. Because licensed, tagged, and insured scooters in the 125-150cc range are the minority, it really becomes a problem in my town. The cops stop paying attention the second you mention "scooter". Why? All those illegally ridden 150's with the "1" peeled off have set a precedent that scooters are not to be taken seriously; if there's a traffic problem, they brought it on themselves.
-
- Member
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:11 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
- laxer
- Member
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:33 am
- Location: The Rocky Mountains
Purchasing online tax-free=SAFE and legal.n2tattoos wrote:not paying registration=illegalRay Knobs wrote:
Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?
jackal
purchasing online tax-free=not-illegal.
Not registering your scooter, not checking to make sure it's maintained, not knowing how to ride it properly because you don't have a motorcycle endorsement=DANGEROUS to yourself and others.
- pugbuddy
- Member
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:31 am
- Location: Tulsa OK
It's a bad argument. Everyone knows all Danes are evil!If a guy from Copenhagen commits a crime, would you than say all Danes are evil?
Seriously, no matter where you choose to draw the line on good/bad behavior, pretty much everyone is a hypocrite at some level. That doesn't mean that stating someone is doing something wrong is the incorrect thing to do.
The guy/girl in question is engaging in behavior that has negative repurcussions on the scooter community in general. It's not something we should endorse or necessarily accept, even if we ourselves are not perfect.
At the same time, some of the comments in the replies seem a bit harsh IMHO. I'll attibute that to the change in weather that is taking place across the nation (note the intentionally vague generalization of my rationalization).
-
- Member
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:22 am
- Location: Maryland
There are a lot of things we do that we do not like. That is part of living in a civilized society. Money has to come somewhere to repair that pothole on the road that someone has been swerving to avoid for the past 3 years. Someone has to build that road in the first place and someone has to pay for that too. The person who zipped through traffic on that unregistered scooter was using the road the rest of the folks in that area paid for. He/she had no problem riding that road without paying. They think they are special and rules are for others, not them. Let us remember though that jail cells are filled with people who share that particular mindset. ...all of them feel they are "special" and entitled not to follow rules the rest of us follow. I would not worry though. From what you've described the way this individual rides will sooner or later attract attention from other motorists and police. After that their next ride will be bike operated by kinetic energy (i.e. paddling )
- bigbropgo
- Member
- Posts: 1607
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:41 am
- Location: gotham city and the 801
Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.
way to go ray! see what being a smarty pants gets ya.
this person without tags and insurance(allegedly) will realize his/her mistake if he/she is ever in a hit and run. or if his/her scooter is stolen. if either one happens he/she will pay out of pocket or come clean. what ever happens, it is them, not us that has to worry about it. apparently this is a sore subject or something but chill. remember this person has no idea we are having this discussion. not worth fighting about it. happy festivus everybody.
no i don't ride a scooter, i am a scooter pilot!
VICTUS MORTUUS VENATOR
VICTUS MORTUUS VENATOR
- Ray Knobs
- Member
- Posts: 683
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:55 pm
- Location: Rochester NY
- Contact:
laxer wrote:n2tattoos wrote:Jesus... you guys sure do make a lot of assumptions when you try to make a point.Ray Knobs wrote:
Purchasing online tax-free=SAFE and legal.
Not registering your scooter, how do you know this, tag stolen maybe?
not checking to make sure it's maintained, how do you know this?
not knowing how to ride it properly because you don't have a motorcycle endorsement how do you know this?
=DANGEROUS to yourself and others.
My states asks me every year to report everything i purchased over the internet i didn't pay sales tax on. If even offers a handy dollar figure to use in case you don't remember everything. Yours will to soon enough.
I expect all you holy than thou law abiders to pay your far share.
Somes states do, some don't. But instead of asking consumers to self-report their out-of-state purchases, what's probably going to happen before long is that businesses will be required to collect sales tax on behalf of every state they ship merchandise to. The main argument against it is that it'd be a burden on mail-delivery retailers, but since other companies (with brick-and-mortar stores in every state) already manage it, that argument won't hold up.Ray Knobs wrote:My states asks me every year to report everything i purchased over the internet i didn't pay sales tax on. If even offers a handy dollar figure to use in case you don't remember everything. Yours will to soon enough.
- bluebuddygirl
- Member
- Posts: 880
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:34 am
- Location: Akron, OH
Hmmm... actually you are supposed to pay state tax in your state on what you purchased online. The seller does not have to collect sales tax for YOUR state, but it is not really legal not to pay it. Just saying.laxer wrote:Purchasing online tax-free=SAFE and legal.n2tattoos wrote:not paying registration=illegalRay Knobs wrote:
Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?
jackal
purchasing online tax-free=not-illegal.
Not registering your scooter, not checking to make sure it's maintained, not knowing how to ride it properly because you don't have a motorcycle endorsement=DANGEROUS to yourself and others.
As for registration fees, those pay for road maintenance and repairs. When someone doesn't pay it does affect all of us one way or another.
In most states. Not all. It's usually called a "use tax", and is technically not the same as sales tax, but by no coincidence whatsoever, tends to be equal to the sales tax rate. Most of the time, it applies to purchases you make by visting states in person, so if you go to Delaware to buy a scooter with no sales tax, you'd still be legally obligated to pay a "use tax" when you brought it home. Or even if you go to a state with a lower sales tax, you'd still owe the difference. Enforcement of this ranges from spotty to none, which is why I expect the federal legislature to step in eventually under the Interstate Commerce Clause.bluebuddygirl wrote:Hmmm... actually you are supposed to pay state tax in your state ....
- ericalm
- Site Admin
- Posts: 16842
- Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Contact:
All issues of taxation aside (please)…
In many states with separate licensing, registration and/or insurance requirements for a 50cc scoot, those exemptions are contingent on the scoot being unmodified and speed restricted. De-restrict it so it's capable of running at over a certain MPH, kit it, etc., and you're bound by the same requirements as other scoots.
In many states with separate licensing, registration and/or insurance requirements for a 50cc scoot, those exemptions are contingent on the scoot being unmodified and speed restricted. De-restrict it so it's capable of running at over a certain MPH, kit it, etc., and you're bound by the same requirements as other scoots.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
-
- Member
- Posts: 2037
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:57 pm
- Location: Next to a big dirt lot.
- Contact:
Um....why do you assume I buy on the internet? I've never jumped on that bandwagon, too many chances for it to go wrong. Therefore, since I buy face-to-face, locally, why yes...I DO pay sales tax on all my purchases.Ray Knobs wrote:Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?
jackal
Thanks for asking.
--Keys
"Life without music would Bb"
- jrsjr
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 3746
- Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:26 pm
And, just to be clear, the OP was from Virginia where the law regarding scooters was modified recently to make it very clear that this practice is illegal. To wit:ericalm wrote:All issues of taxation aside (please)…
In many states with separate licensing, registration and/or insurance requirements for a 50cc scoot, those exemptions are contingent on the scoot being unmodified and speed restricted. De-restrict it so it's capable of running at over a certain MPH, kit it, etc., and you're bound by the same requirements as other scoots.
Virginia Code
§ 46.2-914. Limitations on operation of mopeds.
A. No moped shall be driven on any highway or public vehicular area faster than 35 miles per hour. Any person who operates a moped faster than 35 miles per hour shall be deemed, for all the purposes of this title, to be operating a motorcycle.
B. No moped shall be driven on any highway by any person under the age of 16, and every person driving a moped shall carry with him some form of identification that includes his name, address, and date of birth.
Violation of this subsection shall constitute a traffic infraction punishable by a fine of no more than $50.
(Code 1950, §§ 46-1, 46-185, 46-186, 46-343; 1954, c. 59; 1958, cc. 501, 541, § 46.1-1; 1964, c. 618; 1966, c. 643; 1968, cc. 285, 641, 653, 685; 1972, cc. 433, 609; 1974, c. 347; 1975, cc. 382, 426; 1976, c. 372; 1977, cc. 252, 585; 1978, cc. 36, 550, 605; 1979, c. 100; 1980, c. 51; 1981, c. 585; 1983, c. 386; 1984, cc. 404, 780; 1985, c. 447; 1986, cc. 72, 613; 1987, c. 151; 1988, cc. 107, 452, 865; 1989, c. 727; 2004, c. 758; 2006, cc. 529, 538; 2008, c. 525.)
- Ray Knobs
- Member
- Posts: 683
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:55 pm
- Location: Rochester NY
- Contact:
- michelle_7728
- Member
- Posts: 1914
- Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:16 am
- Location: Renton, WA
Well that's a little annoying
After all these posts...who knows, if the scooter wasn't stolen
maybe someone swiped the plate and he/she hadn't noticed it yet...so it could be that the reality of that situation was different than initially interpretted...faded rear fender except the rectangle where the plate used to be
Past bikes: 08' Genuine Buddy 125, '07 Yamaha Majesty 400, '07 Piaggio MP3 250, '08 Piaggio MP3 500, '08 Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Current bikes: Two '09 Genuine Buddy 125's
Current bikes: Two '09 Genuine Buddy 125's
- twoscoots
- Member
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 11:52 pm
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Well that's a little annoying
The license plate thieves scraped off the 125 badging, too. That's some bad guys for you.michelle_7728 wrote:After all these posts...who knows, if the scooter wasn't stolen...aybe someone swiped the plate and he/she hadn't noticed it yet...so it could be that the reality of that situation was different than initially interpretted...
- Drumwoulf
- Member
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:49 pm
Wow! -Lot's of scummy friends?illnoise wrote:I don't think we need to encourage empathy for people that can't be bothered to accept the responsibilities of riding legally and safely, I think they're scum, even though I have lots of friends that do that kinda stuff.
Maybe you should make some changes in your life?
Namaste,
~drummer~
07 Buddy 125
07 Vespa GT200
~drummer~
07 Buddy 125
07 Vespa GT200
- chelsea
- Dealer
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:04 pm
- Location: richmond, va
I'm going to go out on a limb on this one.
I'm 99% certain that I know exactly the person and the scooter in question. The scooter was once legit, but then the owner decided that he too wanted to stick it to the man and did not reregister it or obtain insurance for it.
It was then stolen from the original owner and tracked down via a police chase and glorious wreck which put the rider (who may or may not have been the thief) in the hospital AND in jail.
Not having insurance, the original owner sold the trashed scoot at a big big loss to someone looking for a project. That was probably about a year ago.
The new owner only very recently got the scoot back on the road, so my hope is that the lack of tags etc is a temporary thing. I am almost certain that he has insurance at this point, as to do otherwise would be pretty retarded.
sooooo let's just hope that this is temporary!
I'm 99% certain that I know exactly the person and the scooter in question. The scooter was once legit, but then the owner decided that he too wanted to stick it to the man and did not reregister it or obtain insurance for it.
It was then stolen from the original owner and tracked down via a police chase and glorious wreck which put the rider (who may or may not have been the thief) in the hospital AND in jail.
Not having insurance, the original owner sold the trashed scoot at a big big loss to someone looking for a project. That was probably about a year ago.
The new owner only very recently got the scoot back on the road, so my hope is that the lack of tags etc is a temporary thing. I am almost certain that he has insurance at this point, as to do otherwise would be pretty retarded.
sooooo let's just hope that this is temporary!