Well, that's a little annoying.

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:45 am

I took the MSF and am a duly-licensed motorcycle operator. I pay for tags and insurance on my scooters, and I pay property taxes.
Therefore, I was a little irked to find myself behind a Sunset Buddy today, with a faded rear fender except the rectangle where the plate used to be, which popped out into 45mph traffic with no problem. People will never take us seriously when people get away with that sort of BS.

db · Post by db » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:10 am

Waht do you mean pop out

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:48 am

db wrote:Waht do you mean pop out

He means, it was a Buddy 125 masqurading as a Buddy 50 and running around with no tags.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:46 pm

Could have possibly been a heavily modded 50cc with a big bore kit and transmission mods. But the sound would be such a major difference from a 125/150 I'm sure you'd realize the different from just that.

Fender's are different on 50/125's so that's another give off.

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:05 am

It was definitely a debadged 125. The muffler/tailpipe looks different on the 50, and the fact that the rear fender was totally faded out except for the rectangle around the license plate bracket (which was still there) made it extra-obvious.

Ray Knobs · Post by **Ray Knobs** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:48 am

You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.

As long as he has insurance mind your own business.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:55 am

Hmmmm...wonder if the scooter was stolen?

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:57 am

Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.

As long as he has insurance mind your own business.

The problem is, "the man" is all of the rest of us who pay our registration fees, taxes, etc....

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:10 am

pdxrita wrote:
Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.
The problem is, "the man" is all of the rest of us who pay our registration fees, taxes, etc....

But why would one suppose that "the man" (the authorities) would judge ALL scooter riders by what an individual rider does? If a guy from Copenhagen commits a crime, would you than say all Danes are evil? If you were bitten by a Beagle, would you condemn the entire breed? If a guy in a pickup truck cut you off, does that make ALL pickup truck drivers AHs????

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:55 am

Drumwoulf wrote:
pdxrita wrote:
Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.
The problem is, "the man" is all of the rest of us who pay our registration fees, taxes, etc....
But why would one suppose that "the man" (the authorities) would judge ALL scooter riders by what an individual rider does? If a guy from Copenhagen commits a crime, would you than say all Danes are evil? If you were bitten by a Beagle, would you condemn the entire breed? If a guy in a pickup truck cut you off, does that make ALL pickup truck drivers AHs????

I don't think the problem here is being judged by "the man," I think it's that we who pay for our registration and MSF are getting a raw deal when the rest of these yahoos don't.

digital-entropy · Post by **digital-entropy** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:00 am

laxer wrote:I don't think the problem here is being judged by "the man," I think it's that we who pay for our registration and MSF are getting a raw deal when the rest of these yahoos don't.

Indeed, and if everyone who was supposed to be paying those fees was actually paying them they'd be less (in theory).

Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.

As long as he has insurance mind your own business.

Minority groups are unfortunately often represented by those that stick out the most. Motorists aren't likely to remember the polite scooterist they encounter each day, they'll remember the bad ones.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:53 pm

twoscoots wrote:I took the MSF and am a duly-licensed motorcycle operator. I pay for tags and insurance on my scooters, and I pay property taxes.
Therefore, I was a little irked to find myself behind a Sunset Buddy today, with a faded rear fender except the rectangle where the plate used to be, which popped out into 45mph traffic with no problem. People will never take us seriously when people get away with that sort of BS.

I couldn't agree with you more. There's quite a few of those riders around here and it burns me up. They're also the ones that are riding like they're playing a game of Frogger. A number of months back, I saw one riding with a helmet on top of his head.... literally, on top of his head, as in the chin bar was acting as a sun visor. I wonder who he was sticking it to?

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:57 pm

Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.
As long as he has insurance mind your own business.

...one of the more stupid responses I've found on this board. If you excuse illegal behavior like this, what's to prevent you from excusing other, more invasive and unpleasant illegal behavior. Who makes the decision what's acceptable? You alone? "The Man" is not here to oppress you (despite what you hear in song lyrics), their ultimate purpose is to prevent humanity from behaving like a pack of jackals on an antelope...snarling and snapping at each other as they fight over the drumsticks of a weaker animal.

--Keys

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:25 pm

Post by **illnoise** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:08 pm

I don't think we need to encourage empathy for people that can't be bothered to accept the responsibilities of riding legally and safely, I think they're scum, even though I have lots of friends that do that kinda stuff.

Because they're cheap and irresponsible, the rest of us pay crazy insurance premiums, we pay more for bikes because the importers and manufacturers need to carry more insurance, and the bikes get more and more annoyingly dummyproofed each year. Those people also bring bad attention to scootering, bringing law-abiding riders more hassles from authorities, and less respect from motorists.

Worse, we lose the right to make our own decisions because other people can't make mature decisions on their own and need to be babysat. You can talk about libertarianism all you want, but don't use it as an excuse for irresponsibility.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:39 pm

illnoise wrote:I don't think we need to encourage empathy for people that can't be bothered to accept the responsibilities of riding legally and safely, I think they're scum, even though I have lots of friends that do that kinda stuff.

Because they're cheap and irresponsible, the rest of us pay crazy insurance premiums, we pay more for bikes because the importers and manufacturers need to carry more insurance, and the bikes get more and more annoyingly dummyproofed each year. Those people also bring bad attention to scootering, bringing law-abiding riders more hassles from authorities, and less respect from motorists.

Worse, we lose the right to make our own decisions because other people can't make mature decisions on their own and need to be babysat. You can talk about libertarianism all you want, but don't use it as an excuse for irresponsibility.

That was definitely worth posting twice. I agree so much, I'm quoting the whole thing, just so it's there in triplicate. If I were the baking type and had your address, I'd mail you a home made cookie. That's how much I agree with that statement! Sadly, since I don't bake (nor have your address) I'll let this cheesy emote convey what a hypothetical cookie cannot.

Ray Knobs · Post by **Ray Knobs** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:46 pm

Keys wrote:
Ray Knobs wrote:
Who makes the decision what's acceptable? You alone? "The Man" is not here to oppress you (despite what you hear in song lyrics), their ultimate purpose is to prevent humanity from behaving like a pack of jackals on an antelope...snarling and snapping at each other as they fight over the drumsticks of a weaker animal.

--Keys
Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?

jackal

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:02 pm

This kinda thing gets me, too. Because licensed, tagged, and insured scooters in the 125-150cc range are the minority, it really becomes a problem in my town. The cops stop paying attention the second you mention "scooter". Why? All those illegally ridden 150's with the "1" peeled off have set a precedent that scooters are not to be taken seriously; if there's a traffic problem, they brought it on themselves.

n2tattoos · Post by **n2tattoos** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:29 pm

Ray Knobs wrote:
Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?

jackal

not paying registration=illegal

purchasing online tax-free=not-illegal.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:46 pm

n2tattoos wrote:
Ray Knobs wrote:
Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?

jackal
not paying registration=illegal

purchasing online tax-free=not-illegal.

Purchasing online tax-free=SAFE and legal.

Not registering your scooter, not checking to make sure it's maintained, not knowing how to ride it properly because you don't have a motorcycle endorsement=DANGEROUS to yourself and others.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:47 pm

If a guy from Copenhagen commits a crime, would you than say all Danes are evil?

It's a bad argument. Everyone knows all Danes are evil!

Seriously, no matter where you choose to draw the line on good/bad behavior, pretty much everyone is a hypocrite at some level. That doesn't mean that stating someone is doing something wrong is the incorrect thing to do.

The guy/girl in question is engaging in behavior that has negative repurcussions on the scooter community in general. It's not something we should endorse or necessarily accept, even if we ourselves are not perfect.

At the same time, some of the comments in the replies seem a bit harsh IMHO. I'll attibute that to the change in weather that is taking place across the nation (note the intentionally vague generalization of my rationalization).

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:16 am

There are a lot of things we do that we do not like. That is part of living in a civilized society. Money has to come somewhere to repair that pothole on the road that someone has been swerving to avoid for the past 3 years. Someone has to build that road in the first place and someone has to pay for that too. The person who zipped through traffic on that unregistered scooter was using the road the rest of the folks in that area paid for. He/she had no problem riding that road without paying. They think they are special and rules are for others, not them. Let us remember though that jail cells are filled with people who share that particular mindset. ...all of them feel they are "special" and entitled not to follow rules the rest of us follow. I would not worry though. From what you've described the way this individual rides will sooner or later attract attention from other motorists and police. After that their next ride will be bike operated by kinetic energy (i.e. paddling

)

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:45 am

Ray Knobs wrote:You can't blame the dude for sticking it to the man.

As long as he has insurance mind your own business.

way to go ray! see what being a smarty pants gets ya.

this person without tags and insurance(allegedly) will realize his/her mistake if he/she is ever in a hit and run. or if his/her scooter is stolen. if either one happens he/she will pay out of pocket or come clean. what ever happens, it is them, not us that has to worry about it. apparently this is a sore subject or something but chill. remember this person has no idea we are having this discussion. not worth fighting about it. happy festivus everybody.

Ray Knobs · Post by **Ray Knobs** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:22 am

laxer wrote:
n2tattoos wrote:
Ray Knobs wrote:

Purchasing online tax-free=SAFE and legal.

Not registering your scooter, how do you know this, tag stolen maybe?
not checking to make sure it's maintained, how do you know this?
not knowing how to ride it properly because you don't have a motorcycle endorsement how do you know this?

=DANGEROUS to yourself and others.
Jesus... you guys sure do make a lot of assumptions when you try to make a point.

My states asks me every year to report everything i purchased over the internet i didn't pay sales tax on. If even offers a handy dollar figure to use in case you don't remember everything. Yours will to soon enough.
I expect all you holy than thou law abiders to pay your far share.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:50 am

Ray Knobs wrote:My states asks me every year to report everything i purchased over the internet i didn't pay sales tax on. If even offers a handy dollar figure to use in case you don't remember everything. Yours will to soon enough.

Somes states do, some don't. But instead of asking consumers to self-report their out-of-state purchases, what's probably going to happen before long is that businesses will be required to collect sales tax on behalf of every state they ship merchandise to. The main argument against it is that it'd be a burden on mail-delivery retailers, but since other companies (with brick-and-mortar stores in every state) already manage it, that argument won't hold up.

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:52 am

laxer wrote:
n2tattoos wrote:
Ray Knobs wrote:
Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?

jackal
not paying registration=illegal

purchasing online tax-free=not-illegal.
Purchasing online tax-free=SAFE and legal.

Not registering your scooter, not checking to make sure it's maintained, not knowing how to ride it properly because you don't have a motorcycle endorsement=DANGEROUS to yourself and others.

Hmmm... actually you are supposed to pay state tax in your state on what you purchased online. The seller does not have to collect sales tax for YOUR state, but it is not really legal not to pay it. Just saying.

As for registration fees, those pay for road maintenance and repairs. When someone doesn't pay it does affect all of us one way or another.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:53 am

banana hammock!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:42 am

bluebuddygirl wrote:Hmmm... actually you are supposed to pay state tax in your state ....

In most states. Not all. It's usually called a "use tax", and is technically not the same as sales tax, but by no coincidence whatsoever, tends to be equal to the sales tax rate. Most of the time, it applies to purchases you make by visting states in person, so if you go to Delaware to buy a scooter with no sales tax, you'd still be legally obligated to pay a "use tax" when you brought it home. Or even if you go to a state with a lower sales tax, you'd still owe the difference. Enforcement of this ranges from spotty to none, which is why I expect the federal legislature to step in eventually under the Interstate Commerce Clause.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:09 am

All issues of taxation aside (please)…

In many states with separate licensing, registration and/or insurance requirements for a 50cc scoot, those exemptions are contingent on the scoot being unmodified and speed restricted. De-restrict it so it's capable of running at over a certain MPH, kit it, etc., and you're bound by the same requirements as other scoots.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:07 am

Ray Knobs wrote:Do you report every internet purchase on your tax return so you can pay the proper amount of sales tax that wasn't collected?

jackal

Um....why do you assume I buy on the internet? I've never jumped on that bandwagon, too many chances for it to go wrong. Therefore, since I buy face-to-face, locally, why yes...I DO pay sales tax on all my purchases.

Thanks for asking.

--Keys

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:41 am

I also, like a high school sophomore, think that "sticking it to the man" is cool. So I murder people and do other things to break the law, because the man says I shouldn't, and that makes me cool.

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:11 am

ericalm wrote:All issues of taxation aside (please)…

In many states with separate licensing, registration and/or insurance requirements for a 50cc scoot, those exemptions are contingent on the scoot being unmodified and speed restricted. De-restrict it so it's capable of running at over a certain MPH, kit it, etc., and you're bound by the same requirements as other scoots.

And, just to be clear, the OP was from Virginia where the law regarding scooters was modified recently to make it very clear that this practice is illegal. To wit:

Virginia Code

§ 46.2-914. Limitations on operation of mopeds.

A. No moped shall be driven on any highway or public vehicular area faster than 35 miles per hour. Any person who operates a moped faster than 35 miles per hour shall be deemed, for all the purposes of this title, to be operating a motorcycle.

B. No moped shall be driven on any highway by any person under the age of 16, and every person driving a moped shall carry with him some form of identification that includes his name, address, and date of birth.

Violation of this subsection shall constitute a traffic infraction punishable by a fine of no more than $50.

(Code 1950, §§ 46-1, 46-185, 46-186, 46-343; 1954, c. 59; 1958, cc. 501, 541, § 46.1-1; 1964, c. 618; 1966, c. 643; 1968, cc. 285, 641, 653, 685; 1972, cc. 433, 609; 1974, c. 347; 1975, cc. 382, 426; 1976, c. 372; 1977, cc. 252, 585; 1978, cc. 36, 550, 605; 1979, c. 100; 1980, c. 51; 1981, c. 585; 1983, c. 386; 1984, cc. 404, 780; 1985, c. 447; 1986, cc. 72, 613; 1987, c. 151; 1988, cc. 107, 452, 865; 1989, c. 727; 2004, c. 758; 2006, cc. 529, 538; 2008, c. 525.)

Ray Knobs · Post by **Ray Knobs** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Keys wrote:
Um....why do you assume I buy on the internet? I've never jumped on that bandwagon, too many chances for it to go wrong.

--Keys

This whole internet thing is a fad anyways, just like the talking pictures and color TV.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:09 am

After all these posts...who knows, if the scooter wasn't stolen

faded rear fender except the rectangle where the plate used to be

maybe someone swiped the plate and he/she hadn't noticed it yet...so it could be that the reality of that situation was different than initially interpretted...

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:33 pm

michelle_7728 wrote:After all these posts...who knows, if the scooter wasn't stolen...aybe someone swiped the plate and he/she hadn't noticed it yet...so it could be that the reality of that situation was different than initially interpretted...

The license plate thieves scraped off the 125 badging, too. That's some bad guys for you.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:06 am

illnoise wrote:I don't think we need to encourage empathy for people that can't be bothered to accept the responsibilities of riding legally and safely, I think they're scum, even though I have lots of friends that do that kinda stuff.

Wow! -Lot's of scummy friends?
Maybe you should make some changes in your life?

chelsea · Post by **chelsea** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:18 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb on this one.

I'm 99% certain that I know exactly the person and the scooter in question. The scooter was once legit, but then the owner decided that he too wanted to stick it to the man and did not reregister it or obtain insurance for it.

It was then stolen from the original owner and tracked down via a police chase and glorious wreck which put the rider (who may or may not have been the thief) in the hospital AND in jail.

Not having insurance, the original owner sold the trashed scoot at a big big loss to someone looking for a project. That was probably about a year ago.

The new owner only very recently got the scoot back on the road, so my hope is that the lack of tags etc is a temporary thing. I am almost certain that he has insurance at this point, as to do otherwise would be pretty retarded.

sooooo let's just hope that this is temporary!

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:49 pm

I thought it was a woman riding it, but it's got a black front panel and is very rat-bike-looking for a Buddy, so that fits.

Modern Buddy

Well, that's a little annoying.

Well, that's a little annoying.

Well that's a little annoying

Re: Well, that's a little annoying.

Well that's a little annoying

Re: Well that's a little annoying